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unmerged(24320)

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coz1: Epilogue

i wake up from the fog created by playing many hours of the latest new game on my computer to see that you have added this Epilogue, and that 6 days have flew by! ! :cool:

many thanks for the Epilogue. it gives closure. i really did not expect anymore.

i was very disappointed to see that Will was the one who died. Kitty deserved better.

but, i was glad that Sonny did not die as Corinna also deserved better (than the loss of Sonny.)

this really cannot be said enough: magnificent AAR ! ! :cool:



also, congratulations on 30,000 views ! ! :D
 

Rensslaer

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Yaay, Coz!

30,000 views is quite a milestone!

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Amric

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Everyone keeps presuming it is Will who got whacked...Now, I am not so sure of that....Tanney never got a good look at who he killed and the blood matted hair pretty much tells me that the face might have been damaged as well. The way that Tanney was killed with Kitty setting him up and Sonny taking him down gives me the horrible feeling that it was Corrina who was killed. The child could be Will's and Kitty and Sonny are together now. I could be wrong, but the whole thing screamed Corrina died...why? Because hanging of mirrors would have been something a woman would do in those days, not a man. A guy would have just set it up against a wall or on a table against the wall. He wouldn't have bothered to put a nail on the wall and hang it...Wouldn't even occur to a man to do so....

I hope to God I'm wrong, but it still just screams Corrina was killed. Maybe I read something wrong...Coz, please tell me I am wrong....
 

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Amric said:
Everyone keeps presuming it is Will who got whacked...Now, I am not so sure of that....Tanney never got a good look at who he killed and the blood matted hair pretty much tells me that the face might have been damaged as well. The way that Tanney was killed with Kitty setting him up and Sonny taking him down gives me the horrible feeling that it was Corrina who was killed. The child could be Will's and Kitty and Sonny are together now. I could be wrong, but the whole thing screamed Corrina died...why? Because hanging of mirrors would have been something a woman would do in those days, not a man. A guy would have just set it up against a wall or on a table against the wall. He wouldn't have bothered to put a nail on the wall and hang it...Wouldn't even occur to a man to do so....

I hope to God I'm wrong, but it still just screams Corrina was killed. Maybe I read something wrong...Coz, please tell me I am wrong....
:rofl: Male behavior analyst, indeed!

Coz, Amric may have caught you in a slight error of human nature. This is certainly what I would have done!

Maybe Corinna was a cross-dresser, and was pretending to be Sonny... Or Will!

I'm trusting that Amric is speaking tongue-in-cheek, though it almost sounds convincing! :D

Renss
 

coz1

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Fb-fb:

GhostWriter - Thank you much on both the compliment on the AAR and for the viewcount. I am pleased to have finally reached 30,000. I was hoping I might at least get that many. As for the ending, yes - like I said, I was ambiguous to leave it open and see what the readers might say. I am glad it worked. Thank you so much for following so religiously!

Amric - Hmmm...how to answer? If you go back and re-read the last few posts, you'll note I mentioned that it was a man hanging the picture. As well, I mentioned a woman had just left the house before Tanney entered. That should give you enough clues as to who was shot. Further, the description of the woman at the end was that of Corinna, though the last time I made mention of such was some time ago and thus easily forgotten, or better yet, not easily remembered.

And one other note - if you read the acknowledgement post above, it pretty much states who was killed and why. I did want to leave the ending slightly open to interpretation, but really only due to not wanting to be heavy handed with any sort of "happy ending."

As for who would hang what and how, I would beg to disagree. This is 1883 after all, and we are talking about a married couple's home. I did make a mistake with that scene, but it was not in hanging the mirror as much as the method in which I did. Most likely, they would have hung it from a top molding on the wall rather than a nail as we do now. Look at most houses built between the turn of the century and the 1930's or so and you'll notice a top molding around each room (called crown molding or some such), and some might even have hooks imbedded for hanging pictures and whatnot. But I see no reason why a man would not do such a job himself, especially if told to by a woman. ;)

With all that said, I must have done something right with the limited amount of story time alloted to Corinna to have you worry over her so. She appreciates it, to be sure. :) As do I. Thanks for following along every step of the way!

Renss - Corinna a cross dresser...hmmm...perhaps in another story. ;) Thank you as well for the congrats on 30,000 views. I am rather proud of that number as I am about this entire work. Thanks again for following!
 

CatKnight

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Looks like we're ten days after the fact, but I'm fine with that. :)

First, Congratulations coz! I know how hard it can be to work a tale this massive in scope. You're an inspiration to every writer in AARland. Your story was magnificent, sir.

And to reflect that, I've given Into the West the Weekly AAR Showcase. Come on over and celebrate!
 

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CatKnight said:
You're an inspiration to every writer in AARland. Your story was magnificent, sir.

And to reflect that, I've given Into the West the Weekly AAR Showcase. Come on over and celebrate!
Oh, very, very nice! :D And well deserved!

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Myth

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I'm...done. started reading this about 14 hours ago. had an enforced 2 hour break about 7 hours ago. I'm...tired. not just physically, but emotionally as well, reading through a 20 year story written in 3 years in a single day, a story such as this, is taxing. taxing, but incredibly rewarding. all I can say is, incredible. what a story.

is it worrisome that I saw some of myself in Sonny at his bleakest? :D
 

coz1

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CatKnight - Thank you very much, sir. That is a fine compliment and the showcase puts a very nice capper on this long running work. :)

And thanks also to Renss and Director as well! :) (I'll take that drink, Porter. ;) )

Myth - Wow! Thanks so much for reading through this tale. I know it can get rather taxing as much happens over the time span of Sonny's life. But it means a great deal to me that you poured through it and came out impressed.

And I should not be worried were I you. In fact, many of the trials I pushed Sonny through were ways to perhaps work out my own demons. It was cathartic writing this, in many ways. :)

Thanks again everyone! And have a happy new year! :D
 

unmerged(15337)

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Well, Coz, I was a long time out of date, but finally read through to the end, both bitter and sweet. There is a lot of depth in this story: a few characters who are noble, yet much that is base if not utterly depraved. I'll admit that it was hard to read the parts after the Civil War when Sonny was part of the gang of hit men and bank robbers. And I don't mean the writing was bad, far from it, just that the subject was difficult for me to relate to at all sympathetically. I can accept my heroes being flawed, but having an outright murderer as hero is another matter.

Then you took Sonny into Mexico and literally into Hell. :eek: This part was horrifyingly dark, showing IMHO the absolute worst aspects of the human spirit. Everyone, and I mean everyone, in Montoya's place was evil -- with one exception, the prisoner Pete. When later you had Sonny try to wash the blood off his hands I almost wanted to do the same. I actually felt filthy just reading the Mexico chapters.

After Mexico, anything would have been a relief, and the Rockies were more than that. I see it took Sonny some 7 years of exile in the wilderness in order to find redemption through distant memories of Sunday School spoken through his vision of the Indian "One." Now here I was challenged, for I am a Christian and I truly believe that salvation and forgiveness are offered freely by God for anyone to claim -- even the most vile murderer, even a Hitler or a Stalin who confesses his guilt; God's promise holds just as much for them as for me. But it is oh, so difficult to lay aside my human judgement and thirst for justice and revenge. So part of me wanted to see Sonny genuinely redeemed and part of me revolted at the thought.

As you brought Sonny into Big Bend, Wyoming I was wondering how the newly found peace would be disrupted by Tanney's presence as evidenced by the shootout at the very beginning of the story. Quite honestly at this point I was disappointed, and I thought or hoped you would draw Tanney in gradually and insidiously so that the confrontation would build over a matter of time.

After the shooting it was apparent that both Tanney and Sonny had survived and another meeting between them was required. I will happily congratulate myself on seeing your plot develop before I read it -- I was pretty sure it was Will, not Sonny, whom Tanney murdered in cold blood; and I could tell it was Kitty who was setting Tanney up for vengeance in Casper.

It was fitting for Sonny and Corrinna's new baby boy to named Will. It would have been nice to see more positive closure for some other characters -- maybe you could have gotten Pete and Kitty together. :p

Back in Mexico I wondered why Montoya would need Sonny's help to get rid of Barnes. I got the image of Stalin asking a lowly truckdriver to help him eliminate a troublesome member of the Politburo. It just doesn't make sense.

As for the Shakespeare quoting Indian my vote is that he was a product of Sonny's mind and not an actual man. It was refreshing to see Sonny become more at peace after confession; nevertheless, IMHO if he had truly repented of his murderous earlier ways he would not have sought his bloody revenge against Tanney.

My favorite part of the AAR, I think, was back in the Civil War. There was a lot of death, a horrible amount to be sure, but it made sense in the context of a great war. I have a harder time relating to casual murder as practiced by Barnes's gang.

Coz, this is an excellent an gripping story, very well done. Congratulations on finishing it at last!
 

Rensslaer

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jwolf said:
It would have been nice to see more positive closure for some other characters -- maybe you could have gotten Pete and Kitty together. :p
Now, that would have been interesting! Definitely, indeed!

Another sort of redemption story, for that to happen. But not a bad idea!

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Stuyvesant

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I'm late to the party but let me congratulate you on finishing this work nevertheless. You deserve congratulations for your achievement: not merely the fact that you wrote a story, not merely the fact that you finished it, in spite of it taking almost three years (has it been that long already?), but the fact that you wrote a coherent story, tightly scripted, and wrote it exceedingly well. I have enjoyed the time I've spent reading it very much. As to your goal, to educate and entertain, I can certainly say that I have spent a lot of time trying to understand Sonny, what he did, why he did it and how he became the man he was. In that way, the story challenged me, which is a good thing.

I kept pace with your updates right up to the post describing Sonny's wedding. Read the first few lines that showed he was getting married, and then I had to leave for two weeks. Thus, when I came back (and finally came back to 'Into the West' specifically), I had the wedding scene, Tanney's attempted revenge and the final resolution all in one handy package. Quite a powerful ride to read those three pieces all together.

I have to admit that I read the wedding scene with a growing sense of nervousness. I knew the story demanded a repeat appearance by Tanney. In my mind, while the Pastor's words were soothing my conscious thought, my subconscious kept thinking of the wedding in Kill Bill. I assume you have seen it, or know of it: if so, you'll understand my worries. It made for a strange experience reading that post: on the one hand, all the happiness and seriousness that goes with any wedding, on the other the nervous dread that soon, everbody in the church would be dead. :D Thankfully, it didn't happen.

I did notice Bert's comment about how Sonny and Will looked alike. As I read the next post, about Tanney's revenge attack, I was hit by a certain realization as soon as I read this:
His biggest worry was that he hardly recalled what the man looked like.
I instantly realized Will would die, so that Sonny would live and finally finish matters with Tanney. And so it happened.

Will's death, coming at so late a point in the story, was shocking. Also very shocking in the way it occured: no warning, no fairness, just sudden death. Although it makes great sense, both from a story perspective and from Tanney's point of view: Tanney would not have lived as long as he did, with all the enemies he made, if he'd been prone to bouts of 'honorable' shootouts at noon.

One final thought, something I take from the scene where Kitty and Sonny trap Tanney and kill him. This might be merely my personal view, it might not be at all what you intended. The execution is a pretty low-key affair. Yes, Sonny has his quote, yes, he goes into some exposition about Tanney killing Will, but all in all it's a quick, matter-of-fact deal. You did this, I'm going to stop you, BAM you're dead. Considering the epic of misery Sonny went through because of Tanney and Sonny's search for this man, all the suffering and death for all those years, this execution seems unequal to it, unable to balance the books. Which, in my mind, is just about right. Killing Tanney gives Sonny (and Kitty) some peace, but it doesn't give meaning to the misery that went before, or meaning to the life still to follow. It's not the killing, but the living afterwards - Sonny becoming a father - that finally restores balance to Sonny's life.

The rational part of me says that the final scene, showing Big Bend prosper and settle, showing Sonny as a father himself, is a very tidy and upbeat way to finish such a dark tale. The sentimental part of me says that it's only fair that Sonny finds happiness at last, after all that happened. :)

Once more, congratulations on writing this magnificent story. AARland will be different now that it's done. :)
 

coz1

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Fb-fb:

Woops...we've slipped off of page one. Bound to happen eventually, I suppose. :rolleyes: But I can at least answer some of the more recent feedback...and solve that issue. ;)

jwolf - Of all the people that read this work of mine, jwolf, you have kept me the most honest. I did not start out to create a depraved character but yet; as it went forward, I found that in may ways Sonny was. Thus the ending I attempted to give him. And much of that was due to considerations that you, as a reader, gave me as you commented on the life my main character was living. I honestly cannot tell you how much it means to me that you moved through those passages that were difficult to read because it means they were stimulating enough to make you want to do such a thing.

As for a couple of more directed comments you gave - for Montoya I wanted to show a man who was willing to have someone else do his dirty work for him. Thus, he uses Sonny and Sonny uses him back (or at least I tried to make it so.) As for Tanney in Big Bend, you make an extremely valid point. I confess part of that is due to me wanting to focus only on those aspects that were truly integral to the story and part was based on me wanting to finish up. I might have been able to construct something further, but by this point in the story, it simply seemed superfluous. Tanney comes in by surprise and challenges those things that Sonny thought he had learned. It was only through these final movements that he truly learns the lesson. I hope I gave Sonny that demeanor and thought at the end.

Thanks for being such a loyal reader of this work and your comments have truly been one of the great reasons I kept moving forward with this! :D

Renss - I have actually toyed with the idea of finding some further story to utilize Pete. As you may recall, Pete is the brother of Petrovksy from my Persian AAR. There might very well be some future use for him. ;)

Stuyvesant - I must also say to you that your comments are among my absolute favorites, both in this AAR and in all others. You have a great ability to both see what the writer is trying to accomplish and comment on that and then comment from your own point of view as to where you would like to see things go. It is an amazing ability to me that you see past the constructs that writers put on their work and get down to the base event or idea. It is so very much appreciated!

As to the wedding, I have seen Kill Bill and I can say it was not an influence. That scene was supposed to be the calm before the final storm. Your fear was quite correct, but as you can see, I gave it a stay for another post.

I am glad to see you picked up on the "similarity" line between Sonny and Will. I was not sure how to get such across so that it was apparent that Will had been killed but not Sonny. But I did not want it to be too apparent.

As for the ending, you are quite correct in both sentiment and thought. Sonny needed to not think about this as much as simply do it. And it will haunt him just as anything else he has done. But the fact that he owns his responsibility now is key. Indeed, he now has a chance to fully put that life behind and move forward with the knowledge that his wife and child are safe and he himself has such a life to begin with.

Thanks for being such an incredible reader and commenter! I've always looked forward to what you had to say because it always seems quite accurate and well informed. It shows your level of understanding and the attempt you made to study what has been written. That is a very valuable tool for a writer to avail themself of and I have taken each and every one as gospel!


And thanks once again for all that read and commented on this work. As an announcement, I apologize for being a little absent lately. I have been rather busy in RL but mostly wanted to take the opportunity for some downtime before EUIII is released. I'll certainly catch up on anything and everything I might have missed in the last week or so. And will definitely get back to writing on Eagle in Winter (some recent updates are available for anyone that wishes to read them.) And I must admit, I am going through a little post partum depression right now as I say goodbye (or have said goodbye) to these charcters. I don't know that AARland will be different after this story has reached the conclusion, but I personally am certainly changed. I'm just glad that I was able to get it out there and immensely pleased that so many wanted and enjoyed the read! :D
 

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coz1: Whoops...we've slipped off of page one.

worse than that, i just found you on page three ! ! :eek: at least it was at the very top of page three ! ! ;)

also, any idea when you will be able to return to this magnificent work ? ? :cool:


EDIT to add: Whoops ! ! :eek:o this was supposed to go to the bottom of "The Eagle In Winter".
 
Last edited:

coz1

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GhostWriter said:
coz1: Whoops...we've slipped off of page one.

worse than that, i just found you on page three ! ! :eek: at least it was at the very top of page three ! ! ;)

also, any idea when you will be able to return to this magnificent work ? ? :cool:


EDIT to add: Whoops ! ! :eek:o this was supposed to go to the bottom of "The Eagle In Winter".
Well, to be honest GhostWriter, I don't mind at all. It is so common to see an AAR slip off the first page and be forgotten. Given the amount of work I put into this one, I have to say it has been a bit disheartening to see it fall so quickly past the forum's eyesight. :(

Thanks for the bump. :)

And I have noticed on my blog that several people have linked to this work in the pdf's. Please feel free to comment if you have something to say as I still value criticism on this and any other work. But this is THE one. Nothing else I have ever written here or anywhere else was given as much time and effort. That people might still be reading is a wonderful thought. To those that are - thank you so very much! :D
 

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Great to see this magnificent work is up for a VictAARian Cross!

What is this? A repeat, or a three-peat, for you, Coz? :D Assuming you win, of course. Which I think there's a very good chance of.

Lots of memories!

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I have just had to finish catching up on this marvellous AAR that has come to a most excellent end. It's certainly been an AAR that has taken a few years and it has been worth following it. I do apologise for my late response and I feel guilty for not reviewing regularly but rest assured, I was keeping watch and taking in each installment.

An excellent story once again, Coz1! Truely sir, you really should consider publishing a book someday, I believe it would certainly be a bestseller. ;)
 

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Ksim3000, I am so thankful to see someone come through and comment again after so long a time. I remember your early comments in this AAR and certainly appreciate that you came back and let me know you finished and enjoyed it. A true compliment! I am glad you enjoyed it as well.

As for publishing, I am mulling some ideas around in my head trying to find the right work to offer up for such a thing. We'll see. ;)

Thanks again.

Oh, and Renss - I think it's only twice for the Vickie Cross. But Persia did win the gold. Maybe I can two-peat. :D
 

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coz1 said:
Oh, and Renss - I think it's only twice for the Vickie Cross. But Persia did win the gold. Maybe I can two-peat. :D
Just realized that your feat of repeating your previous Victoria Cross for this one hasn't been celebrated in this thread...

Congratulations! Again.

Wonderful work, this is!

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