Well, why not try posting in the sub search thread that's stickied at the top of this forum? I'm surprised there isn't a post for our game there already, since we've lost so many players.TAF said:
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Im sorry to quit, but when I march 65k cavalry against 20k cavarly and lost my entire army, that is just totally unfair. Shock 5 leaders at land tech <5 is just too much. Im sorry. This happens right after I get gang-banged for 6 provinces and lose for the exact same reason.
I dont mind a fair fight. But totally undefeatable despite 3 to 1 odds? No, I cant play with that. Im sorry.
I dont mind a fair fight. But totally undefeatable despite 3 to 1 odds? No, I cant play with that. Im sorry.
ryoken69 said:
Come on ryo you are better than that, i mean you became a 1337 warmonger overnight if you wont recall
You even wrote the book on warmongering!!!! :rofl:
I understand your feelings. Sorry to bash on you Ryo, Burgundy was real strong.<I had to assert England's place or be 2nd in France or 3rd> You're very good at making strong Nations. They make jealous Neighbors too! Although others have done significantly worse to me. It's hard to beat a player who has 20-30 MP games straight experience. I haven't missed a week. I saw the fact you'd strike back one day and mine as well use that shock 5 leader. Although I tell you, Shig took your place and nearly gave me a run for my money. If Drake had been in control of the Navy, it would've been a WP. Next time don't rush out so quickly. You actually could've damaged me! Learn patience, it's key in war...
ryoken69 said:
ryoken69 said:
I subbed Burgundy through the war after you abandoned it. Do you know why you lost?
50% maintenance.
After your losses, and after the ~3 month interim that followed your chickening out, I took over. After a bit of judicious minting -- and turning the maintenance to 100%, of course -- I built up a ~40k cavalry army and started crushing Drew's ~20-30k armies near Champagne while his leader was busy sieging the capital. I must have killed upwards of 50-100k. I also came very close to defeating the leader himself, as I threw a ~50k army against his ~15k. He managed to retreat in time, though. It was still a rather close fight, considering how badly the situation was stacked against me. I think, if the war had been properly fought from the beginning, the chances of winning would have been decently good... and I'm not even a very good warmonger.
Was that shock 5 leader a bit overpowering? Well, yeah. However, he'll necessarily have a number of armies that aren't led by that shock 5 leader, and that's where you should strike.
By the way, would it be too much to ask for a minor edit for Morocco? I was in the process of subjugating the Mali when I left to sub Burgundy, to the point that I was sieging their last province. The AI, of course, bungled it and took only one province, which happened to be the core that gave me a casus belli on them. I'd like any of the following, if everyone doesn't mind: Mali's four non-capital provinces (at 2 BB a piece) or a temporary casus belli on Mali and +1 stability (so I can DoW them again and finish where the AI failed). Normally I wouldn't really care, but I really need the manpower those provinces would provide.
How can I start playing EU2 MP? I didnt play it any time before...
Thanks a lot...
Thanks a lot...
No Shig, that is not the case. I turned it down to 50% maintenance to begin printing right after losing the battle. I moved the maint slider first, then when I opened the budget and saw I would only be making 40 ducats a month at full mint; I just lost my will to fight. After watching 30k vanish in the FIRST ROUND of combat against a 20k enemy, I just couldnt take it. You almost won with 50k vs 15k? And you dont see a problem? Shock is RIDICULOUSLY powerful at these tech levels. It has to be toned down, Im sorry.
In the first gang-bang; I noted and complained about this. Nothing was done. I lost well over 200k in that war and couldnt win but a few battles. So when I watch 60k get not only defeated but decimated by 20k, I just cant live with that. I am sorry if you dont understand.
Drew, I hold no ill will towards you. I was mad at you for attacking me; but I dont blame you. You were making self-interested decisions. That is fine with me. I am mad at the shock value, not you. You know I should have won that battle; hence your response when you saw 30k vanish in round 1. If three to one is not enough to win, how can I expect to do anything? We have roughly the same support limit. You had a tech lead; true; but it was not a CRT and I was about to get tech 3 myself.
If people dont see 60k being wiped out by 20k as unfair, well I just dont know what to say. But I am not playing with shock 4 leaders before 1500. It is just too powerful. My growth was crushed in a 6-prov gang-bang because of this. Then I lose my entire cavalry force in a week despite 3 to 1 odds. Im sorry, but if I cant win on the battlefield with 3 to 1 odds despite superior tactical position (hence my fighting 60k to 20k in the first place); I just cant play that anymore.
I wasnt on half-maint either, just to clear that up. I had just put it up to full maint to kill the last Bavarian army in Wurtemburg a few days before Drew attacked me. I dropped to half before I quit because I was going to run treasury and needed every penny.
EDIT: And Drew, thanks for the complement. You build a strong nation as well. I feel we have roughly equal skill levels at economics and war. Unfortunately, it is unbearably frustrating to watch my armies being decimated simply because I didnt get a random leader worth jack crap in shock. Even the leaders I did get didnt have shock bonuses; it was move or fire. So to lose one war because of Drake's leader, then another to yours...... oh it is just too much.
And I notice that you guys said Shig "almost" won. Which means Burgundy lost even MORE PROVINCES. UGH! Now it is even poorer. I think that a lot of the problems in this game are the result of bad scenario setup and crappy gold distribution. There should not be so many gold mines in Europe. If there were, then gold wouldnt be valuable! That is why gold is valuable in the first place; it is RARE!
In the first gang-bang; I noted and complained about this. Nothing was done. I lost well over 200k in that war and couldnt win but a few battles. So when I watch 60k get not only defeated but decimated by 20k, I just cant live with that. I am sorry if you dont understand.
Drew, I hold no ill will towards you. I was mad at you for attacking me; but I dont blame you. You were making self-interested decisions. That is fine with me. I am mad at the shock value, not you. You know I should have won that battle; hence your response when you saw 30k vanish in round 1. If three to one is not enough to win, how can I expect to do anything? We have roughly the same support limit. You had a tech lead; true; but it was not a CRT and I was about to get tech 3 myself.
If people dont see 60k being wiped out by 20k as unfair, well I just dont know what to say. But I am not playing with shock 4 leaders before 1500. It is just too powerful. My growth was crushed in a 6-prov gang-bang because of this. Then I lose my entire cavalry force in a week despite 3 to 1 odds. Im sorry, but if I cant win on the battlefield with 3 to 1 odds despite superior tactical position (hence my fighting 60k to 20k in the first place); I just cant play that anymore.
I wasnt on half-maint either, just to clear that up. I had just put it up to full maint to kill the last Bavarian army in Wurtemburg a few days before Drew attacked me. I dropped to half before I quit because I was going to run treasury and needed every penny.
EDIT: And Drew, thanks for the complement. You build a strong nation as well. I feel we have roughly equal skill levels at economics and war. Unfortunately, it is unbearably frustrating to watch my armies being decimated simply because I didnt get a random leader worth jack crap in shock. Even the leaders I did get didnt have shock bonuses; it was move or fire. So to lose one war because of Drake's leader, then another to yours...... oh it is just too much.
And I notice that you guys said Shig "almost" won. Which means Burgundy lost even MORE PROVINCES. UGH! Now it is even poorer. I think that a lot of the problems in this game are the result of bad scenario setup and crappy gold distribution. There should not be so many gold mines in Europe. If there were, then gold wouldnt be valuable! That is why gold is valuable in the first place; it is RARE!
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You know, part of the beauty of the random leaders is that they are random. While England might have a 5 shock leader this round of wars, there is nothing to say that Burgundy won't be getting one anytime soon (or maybe a 6 shock leader in early 1500's!)
Then would be the time to retake those lost provinces. It's a long game and just because you lose a war here and there doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I'm anticipating a lot of ebb and flow in this game due to the leaders. I'm also hoping that the random leaders will spark a lot of wars as players are forced to act with the leaders on hand(As that warmonger TAF did last night )
Then would be the time to retake those lost provinces. It's a long game and just because you lose a war here and there doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I'm anticipating a lot of ebb and flow in this game due to the leaders. I'm also hoping that the random leaders will spark a lot of wars as players are forced to act with the leaders on hand(As that warmonger TAF did last night
)
Ok I'm having trouble keeping track of you Western infidels.
England: Count Drew
Burgundy: Need Perm replacement
Aragon: Drake
Denmark: Bocaj
Byzantium: Duma
Lithuania: TAF
The Most Glorious Muslim Nations:
AK akky Ak (SP?): Calanctus
Golden Horde: Moi
Morrocco: Shigure
Mamelukes: Fredrich
Does that look right?
England: Count Drew
Burgundy: Need Perm replacement
Aragon: Drake
Denmark: Bocaj
Byzantium: Duma
Lithuania: TAF
The Most Glorious Muslim Nations:
AK akky Ak (SP?): Calanctus
Golden Horde: Moi
Morrocco: Shigure
Mamelukes: Fredrich
Does that look right?
Mrlifford said:You know, part of the beauty of the random leaders is that they are random. While England might have a 5 shock leader this round of wars, there is nothing to say that Burgundy won't be getting one anytime soon (or maybe a 6 shock leader in early 1500's!)
Then would be the time to retake those lost provinces. It's a long game and just because you lose a war here and there doesn't mean it's the end of the world.
I'm anticipating a lot of ebb and flow in this game due to the leaders. I'm also hoping that the random leaders will spark a lot of wars as players are forced to act with the leaders on hand(As that warmonger TAF did last night
There is a difference between losing a war and not having a chance to defeat a leader despite overwhelming odds. Random predestiny is no better than planned. I have no problem with losing an even battle because of a leader. When I have a 3 to 1 ratio? That is different.
Yeah, that's right.Mrlifford said:Ok I'm having trouble keeping track of you Western infidels.
England: Count Drew
Burgundy: Need Perm replacement
Aragon: Drake
Denmark: Bocaj
Byzantium: Duma
Lithuania: TAF
The Most Glorious Muslim Nations:
AK akky Ak (SP?): Calanctus
Golden Horde: Moi
Morrocco: Shigure
Mamelukes: Fredrich
Does that look right?
It's Ak Koyunlu, by the way.
ryoken69 said:
That happens pretty much throughout the regular game. Leaders make a heck of a difference, especially shock leaders leading Cav armies.
I realized last night that I have the same tendency to throw my main army at my enemy's main army at the start of the war when I should sit back, let attrition do some damage first, and whittle away at the supporting armies.
TAF's 20k (ish) cav army with a shock leader (4 would be my guess)whacked my 45k cav army pretty good and I was lucky to get away with 8k.
ryoken69 said:
I did win with 50k against 15k. Unfortunately, he managed to retreat and join up with a 35k army in the area. If he hadn't been host, though, he probably would have lost the leader.
When you realise that the enemy has a shock 4 leader, start treating him like Napoleon. Give him a wide berth and harass his other armies. There's no reason to go throwing your main army at him.
Well, I'm not sure what to do. A century of 3/2/2s, 2/3/2s, and the ever-coveted 3/2/3 doesn't sound all too interesting. I would really prefer it if leader stats weren't so overpowering, but there's nothing I can do about that. And we'll have the exact same problem if someone gets a fire 6 leader in the 1700s. So, let's put it up to a vote: should the leader stat cap be strengthened? As Mrlifford points out, this happens in the regular game, too. (And they didn't cap their 15th century leader stats at 4, either!)
Oh. Well, heh, it nearly killed me prematurely. The last thing I was expecting was to find the maintenance at 50% in the middle of a war with big bully England.
Limousin and Auvergne. It was a decently close war, though -- if I had killed the leader at Artois, or if Aragon hadn't lost its navy in the Channel (or, if it's not too much to ask for, both), I think we could have won.
That'll be fixed in future scenarios, naturally.
Lithuanian AAR
Me start war. Me get butt kicked. Had sorry ass saved by Byzantines. Me unhappy, but grateful to Byzantines.
Me start war. Me get butt kicked. Had sorry ass saved by Byzantines. Me unhappy, but grateful to Byzantines.
country now shitty, lose entire army to stupid leader for 3rd time, half-century of defeat because of shitty random leaders, no chance to win any war ever, best case I could defend myself from losing more, Drew still uber strong, Aragon still weak as shit unable to help, Denmark cowardly and allied to England, me quit.
Without Leaders Burgundy's Morale seems better. <note: England has had only 1 Shock 4 General> and at 5 Land that leader is a neccessary evil for Continental War. I lost very badly to Assualts into France while using my Leader as the siege Machine and unstoppable Capitol Taker. I had nearly 2/3rds the Forces the Enemy had, at one point 1/2, they were ill coordinated. Shigure did do well, but he was a bit late and a Sub for Usual Aragon was foolish. Most of the Aragonese Army was off dilly Dallying with London or marching into a Swamp/Mountain of British Infantry in Southern France... Meanwhile the main body of English Forces were picking off Key Provinces in Burgundy... It was all a Recipe for Disaster for Burgundy. English Forces have taken Massive LOSSES, in Cav assualts on their positions in France, I lost nearly as many men as Burgundy has in these Wars. Previously, I saw an opportunity and though it may be what you call opportunistic I took it... Burgundy was the Most Powerful Nation in the World, and I had a chance to take that Position for a brief 'moment', and I did.. It was not fair, but heck, neither was me facing Aragon and Burgundy. What is really Fair? Ryo, gave it his best shot, but I think he should've fought it out. He really needed his Ally on board though and now the Balance has shifted back to Aragon and England. A very tedious Balance in the West. It's the way of things. Gold, shock 4 leaders, Admirals... It's going to make things very competitive.. England had to have War, we all know it.<Burgundy would've eventually had to retake Calais and Ille, it's simply the nature of the Beast> She had a Legendary Leader, shock 5 with Sliders, Rennie. His Legend will live on in the hearts and Minds of Englishmen for centuries to come... Savour of the Crown
More over, was the cement will of Ryoken not to give up Ille De France to England hurt....... I really wanted that. That to me and Lyonaise to Burg, would've worked fine by me. England expressed these feelings from Day one, Morale of the Story Beware what your Allies, Neutrals and Enemies say. Every word, heed them closely
Litho paid more dearly than either Burg, Aragon or England against the Golden Horde. That was a Hellish War...
More over, was the cement will of Ryoken not to give up Ille De France to England hurt....... I really wanted that. That to me and Lyonaise to Burg, would've worked fine by me. England expressed these feelings from Day one, Morale of the Story Beware what your Allies, Neutrals and Enemies say. Every word, heed them closely
Litho paid more dearly than either Burg, Aragon or England against the Golden Horde. That was a Hellish War...