Interregnum in EU3

[MattyG]

All,

With EU3 getting closer, I have started to think about how Interregnum might best be transferred across to the new game, should we decide to accomplish that.

The game is to begin in 1453 and continue only until the 1780s, I think. The end time is less important than the beginning, of course. Here are some starting ideas and, some of which, for me, would be non-negotiables.


1. Cordoba has swept Iberia.

Maybe Navarra could still exist, but the rest have gone.

2. The Crusade is about to happen.

Or is underway. This event sequence has tons of good stuff in it.

3. Tlemcen is at war with Sicily/Genoa/Ragusa.

The challenge has been met from the League of Taranto, and as he game opens, Tlemcen has an upper hand, to the surprise of the Christians.

4. York and Wessex remain independent.

5. Swabia has chosen to marry into the Visconti.

6. France has NOT formed. Although it still could, but not by Burgundy.

7. Krete has pushed its Palaiologoi claims, leaving the way open for that crucial event in 1463 for Byzantium.

8. The Kingdom of Jerusalem is gone, and the Order of Solomon controls Cyprus.

9. The Hussites.

OK, I am sorely tempted to say that they survived. Interregnum is all about history's losers becomming history's winner (or at least second place). But the effects of this would need to be given more consideration. They've been given virtually none in any mod I know of.

10. Languedoc is one province from forming Occitania.

11. Not sure if it will 'work' this way in EU3, but Savoy has chosen the French lineage.

12. Brittany has chosen to extend its Parlement to maximum.

13. Byzantium has NOT gone beserk and conquered all of Anatolia and the Balkans, but has gained Kerch or Kaffa from the Horde.



This is the initial bunch of thoughts. Please list any others that excite you!

 

[orimazd]

From what I have read about EU3, the end is the last thing we need to worry about. Everything diverges so fast, anyways, that we might not worry about it at all (after all, different kings make different decisions, and the monarchs are going to be VERY different in EU3 because it doesn't follow a historical path).

As for Cordoba, I think that Galicia and Leon should be reduced to one province each. Don't make it too easy for them, you know (besides, Cordoba hasn't become a interregnum "superpower" by 1453 and can't really until it goes Mu'tazelite under the sheperd king.

Languedoc should stay three provinces. Auverne inherits Guyenne in what, the 1470s? Then around 1500 Languedoc inherits them and becomes Occitania if things go correctly. We should just make it be just when Languedoc exists, though, because I prefer that Occitania form, period.

I would prefer that the Kingdom of Jerusalem stay around, and I've written about their relations with the Caliphate before and am too tired to write about them again. I personally would like to see them dealing with the marriage scandal at this time, so a human player could go Muslim after the game begins.

The rest of it, minus the Hussites (who I don't feel like writing about right now, because I don't know much and do want them to survive and maybe even spread), I honestly don't give a shit about (I am not a Byzantophile, having only played them in interregnum for about 100 years two times, and I don't see why France would have formed by this point anyways except with Phillip the Whatever...).

About Swabia in our current version, has Sigismund's eternal reign been fixed if Swabia doesn't become Lombardia (this is probably why I don't care about them...but they are central European, which may also be why)?

 

[MattyG]

You are an arrogant jerk sometimes.

But sometimes you are also quite funny.

And this time i think you are completely right.

Except about not liking Swabia.

Matty

 

[orimazd]

You are an arrogant jerk sometimes.

I get that a lot.

But sometimes you are also quite funny.

That too.

And this time i think you are completely right.

and that a lot.

Except about not liking Swabia.

I think a girl said that to me once...

I'm thinking that there may be a time patch like the Montezuma one for EU2 coming out quickly...if this is the case, we don't have to do much thinking on changing things.

 

[MattyG]

I'm thinking that there may be a time patch like the Montezuma one for EU2 coming out quickly...if this is the case, we don't have to do much thinking on changing things.

Please explain. You tease me with this scant information.

 

[unmerged(51378)]

I think he means that Interregnum's startdate should still be 1419. And I agree. Especially if Jerusalem would be gone in 1453.

1. Cordoba has swept Iberia.

Maybe Navarra could still exist, but the rest have gone.

Agreed.

6. France has NOT formed. Although it still could, but not by Burgundy.

Agreed.

8. The Kingdom of Jerusalem is gone, and the Order of Solomon controls Cyprus.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo...!

9. The Hussites.

Should exist. Maybe also in Hungary and/or Poland.

One question though; Does Zheng He exist in Interregnum?

 

[MattyG]

One question though; Does Zheng He exist in Interregnum?

Thanks for clarifying.

Zeng He does not, because China does not. BUT, one of the China's, plus the Koreans and the REAL Chine *should it form) will have explorers. But not someone who can explore the whole world in 1420, as Zeng He can ...

 

[unmerged(16159)]

I would prefer that our Interregnum:EU3 starts in 1419, because some of our best material is in the early years. If this is not possible then perhaps, while disappointing, it might be possible to transfer some of these ideas into the 1500s. Dunno. It's a shame.

1. Cordoba has swept Iberia.
Maybe Navarra could still exist, but the rest have gone.

Agreed, with Ormizad's caveat. Eire would surely support some Catholic outpost on Iberia, if for no other reason than Trade.

2. The Crusade is about to happen. This event sequence has tons of good stuff in it.

It needs to start early, so it can be over in time to alter the Reformation. This means that the Bavarian Emperor is demanded of the Pope to Crusade, and the initial choice is simply about the severity of the Crusade, and then it's game on.

5. Swabia has chosen to marry into the Visconti.

Agreed.

9. The Hussites.

Also sorely tempted. In our Mod, Jan Hus survives, and I am waiting for the time to go back and sort out that period with an active Hus. This might well mean that there are - perversely - no Hussites since there is no martyr.


Other requests:

14. Hansa was created with London and Florence, but not Koln and Bergen. Hansa also won the Sund Crisis, and Tuscany is on the verge of departing the League under the leadership of Lorenzo di Medici.

15. Papal States with early choice over reform, and starting with higher Innovative score than the '2' planned for 1419.

 

[MattyG]

Now that I understand that the EU3 mod can begin earlier, then I guess this discussion is a bit moot.

Thanks all for your thoughts though.

 

[Culise]

Ah, but there's a little more that could be considered. Religion tags, anyone? Mutazelite coexisting with Sunni coexisting with Shi'a, or Nestorian China no longer sharing the same Eastern Orthodox faith of the Ukraine, Eastern Roman Empire, and Finland, or even the Hussites as separate from the Calvinists for a doctrinal crisis among the Bohemians once the Reformation goes into full swing? Perhaps the more dynamic papal and HRE control system would allow for more interesting events with Bavaria/Swabia/Hansa interaction predicated on these, especially in the wake of the Crusade? What else would new opportunities allow?

 

[MattyG]

Ah, but there's a little more that could be considered. Religion tags, anyone? Mutazelite coexisting with Sunni coexisting with Shi'a, or Nestorian China no longer sharing the same Eastern Orthodox faith of the Ukraine, Eastern Roman Empire, and Finland, or even the Hussites as separate from the Calvinists for a doctrinal crisis among the Bohemians once the Reformation goes into full swing? Perhaps the more dynamic papal and HRE control system would allow for more interesting events with Bavaria/Swabia/Hansa interaction predicated on these, especially in the wake of the Crusade? What else would new opportunities allow?

Indeed, EU3 holds so much potential. The imbedded event system alone is so juicy, with me being able to set parametres for effects to exist, rather than events, counter events and events that undo the events of the evented event events.

All of the religious options are almost too much. I'm going to need to get a degree in theology.

My real wish is that a province could have a religious breakdown and be able to reflect a religious diversity. Jerusalem, and many other provinces deserve it.

 

[orimazd]

All of the religious options are almost too much. I'm going to need to get a degree in theology.

I'm getting a minor in religious studies.

 

[MattyG]

I'm getting a minor in religious studies.

Then your services will be invaluable as we try and untangle the original religious differences and extrapolate whether a different world from 1250-ish would have altered that.

We may even need to have some starkly different theologies emerge.

 

[loki1232]

I'm very much hoping that a unique brand of Judaism could emerge in Interregnum as a major force.

 

[MattyG]

I'm very much hoping that a unique brand of Judaism could emerge in Interregnum as a major force.

In what way unique? Ideas?

 

[orimazd]

In what way unique?

Maybe we can have a messianic figure accomplish something in our game? But if that is the case, where would we have the state? Palestine is not an option because there is no way they could accomplish it without the aid of something which weighs as much as the UN along with everybody's heavy hearts when the whole holocaust thing was discovered.

 

[loki1232]

In what way unique? Ideas?

I like the messianic Idea, an I think that Cordoba is the place for it too occur. I'm under the impression that Cordoba had a large mix of Jews and Muslims (and christians), probably the Largest Jewish population in the world at the time. I don't think that the Jews would revolt against the muslims, but against the reconquista. If a Messianic Figure arose and inpired a Revolution after Cordoba was defeated, the Jews could establish themselves as a Small state in the East of SPain. Not really sure what comes next admittedly.

 

[MattyG]

I like the messianic Idea, an I think that Cordoba is the place for it too occur. I'm under the impression that Cordoba had a large mix of Jews and Muslims (and christians), probably the Largest Jewish population in the world at the time. I don't think that the Jews would revolt against the muslims, but against the reconquista. If a Messianic Figure arose and inpired a Revolution after Cordoba was defeated, the Jews could establish themselves as a Small state in the East of SPain. Not really sure what comes next admittedly.

I think that Cordobas Jewish population was probably still large in the revised world of Interregnum, but we have to consider that the Kingdom of Jerusalem has been largely stable for 400 years, instead of callapsing by 1192. I think that the Diaspora would have inevitably started to drift back.

What I think might be needed (additionaly, maybe, rather than instead) is that there needs to be the chance for the Jewish population to take control in Jerusalem in the right political conditions.

Maybe if the Kingdom is at low stab and the Order has political control there, then the Judea and/or Samara areas might revolt and a Jewish state might arise.

As for the messianic thing, I have not the skills/knowledge to comment. However, I don't imagine it would have a snowballs chance in Cordoba unless Cordoba was losing the crusade.

 

[orimazd]

When I wrote about the messianic idea, I actually had somewhere in Eastern Europe in mind. It could be either the Sephardic or Ashkhenazic Jews, though I lean on it happening with the Ashkhenazic jews, just because there is so much extra space in East Europe that no one really cared about--jedisan, for example. In Cordoba the Jews were tolerated better than anywhere else in Europe, that's for certain.

I honestly wouldn't like this to be random, I would like it to happen very much as a kind of historical fact instead of something like the union of Occitania, which only rarely happens because of stupid wars the computer fights.

 

[MattyG]

When I wrote about the messianic idea, I actually had somewhere in Eastern Europe in mind. It could be either the Sephardic or Ashkhenazic Jews, though I lean on it happening with the Ashkhenazic jews, just because there is so much extra space in East Europe that no one really cared about--jedisan, for example. In Cordoba the Jews were tolerated better than anywhere else in Europe, that's for certain.

I honestly wouldn't like this to be random, I would like it to happen very much as a kind of historical fact instead of something like the union of Occitania, which only rarely happens because of stupid wars the computer fights.

I think the 'better treatment of Jews in Granada' is a bit of a myth, but the sources for all of it are now pretty scant.

Eastern Europe's a good place. I will be reinvigorating the Kingdom of Bulgaria and it will need someone to oppress who would then revolt out from under it. The Jedisan Jews, here we come?