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MattyG

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Until the release of the first beta of Interregnum 2, this sticky will help keep people up-to-date on what's being considered, any polls, decisions that have been made, and actual progress on getting the first beta out.




Issues

Discussion of Changing Tech Levels in 1419 and the Assumption about European Innovation.

Generic Enlightenment Events

Technology level change events

Tech level effects

Changes to the Trade System

Cultures

Discussion on the Alternative Reformation.

Discussion about German Culture.


Decisions Made/Known Game Features


1. Revising the assumption that Europe starts in the Latin tech (or even that it ever gets there, has received very wide acceptance. Read the discussion here.

2. Interregnum will be using the new AGCEEP map. Link to the discussion.

3. German culture will now begin in four parts: Dutch, Low, Middle and High. See the poll.



Progress

1. Updated all of the main nation event files with the new versions of the "I See You're Playing XXXX", now three versions, one for the ai, which sets the techgroup flag, one for the player setting techgroup and player_run flags and one if the nations starts ai and then goes player later (sets player_run but not techgroup flags). Lots of work. Very boring. Still have to do all the non-selectable states and most of the revolters. Even more boring.

2. Added the commands setflag = xxxxx_culture to each of those events so that we have a means of tracking which nations have which cultures and can trigger events based on culture ownership/non-ownership. haven't done the German states as their cultures are being decided.

3. Received from Garbon the definitive province number/name list and submitted to MichaelM the generic province-based events for replication: Jizya, Wake of War and Core Gaining events.

4. Completed the assignment of knownprovinces to all the starting countries. Long somewhat boring task.

5. Began the more fun task of assigning province ownership. About 40 nations done, the New World, British Isles, Gaul, Iberia and North Africa.

6. Completed province assignment for Germany, Lowlands, Italy, Poland, Scandinavia, KoJ, Baltic and H-V. Added a number of new German and Italian states.

7. As I have been doing each nation, I have also been updating the revolt.txt file. I am hoping that I am not making too many mistakes, as a lot of the errors in these files simply crash the game (or prevent it from loading) without even telling you what the problem is. :rolleyes:

8. Added the updated events for Cores, Wake of War and Jizya replicated by MichaelM.

9. Added nations in Russia and Ukraine, including returning Novgorod to the fold. Added Golden Horde, Georgia and Armenia.

10. Completed the Caliphate and Arabian Peninsula, Seljuk Egypt, Nubia, Adal and Ethiopia, the four West African nations, Kongo, Zulu, Zimbabwe and Xhosa.

11. Completed the Il-Khanate, Japan and Korea and added all the generic and nation-specific events for technology group change. Still waiting for the sea zone numbers and siafu is working on China.
 
Last edited:

MattyG

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Note the progress reports.

So, when will 2.0 be released and what will it look like?

The release date is impossible to guess at. There's a lot of work to do and I still have to receive all of the final versions of the map, province.csv, all the pertinent files. There will also be a lot of bugs to work through.

2.0 will be a very basic verion. I will have assigned provinces, goods and cultures but this is merely to have something to work with. Lots of it will be fine and accurate, but other parts will need work and everyone will want something shifted reassigned and goods changed and culture group rethought.

The event files will be very basic: randoms, core events and those "I see you're playing" events. There will be no nation-specific events or even things like the reformation. So while you will be able to play it, it will be pretty flavourless.
 

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MattyG said:
Note the progress reports.

So, when will 2.0 be released and what will it look like?

Please do post if you get wind of a finalized province list, especially one with sea zones. I'll start working on converting as soon as I have such.
 

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siafu said:
Please do post if you get wind of a finalized province list, especially one with sea zones. I'll start working on converting as soon as I have such.

I have been requested to not make it public. I'll ask Garbon if I can let you in the loop.
 

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MattyG said:
I have been requested to not make it public. I'll ask Garbon if I can let you in the loop.

I take it the final AGCEEP map is secret until AGCEEP 2 is released? That's fair enough: seeing as it's their map and they've put so much work in, they want it to be part of a brand new release and not spoiled by other modders using beta versions of the map first. Hopefully AGCEEP 2 won't be too much longer now: I'm looking forward to playing the new AGCEEP itself, as well as modding on the new map!

Your threads links in the first post don't work BTW - you've missed off the thread numbers.
 

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Incompetent said:
I take it the final AGCEEP map is secret until AGCEEP 2 is released? That's fair enough: seeing as it's their map and they've put so much work in, they want it to be part of a brand new release and not spoiled by other modders using beta versions of the map first. Hopefully AGCEEP 2 won't be too much longer now: I'm looking forward to playing the new AGCEEP itself, as well as modding on the new map!

Your threads links in the first post don't work BTW - you've missed off the thread numbers.


I have had this hapopen many times now, where the links - which were good, I tested them myself after I set them up - become 'ungood'. It has happened to me a lot on these forums.

I'll reset them. Thanks.
 

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MattyG said:
I have been requested to not make it public. I'll ask Garbon if I can let you in the loop.

Perhaps something slightly less-- can we get a confirmation that the prov ID #'s in the images that have already been released are, in fact, finalized?
 

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Bumping this for those who want to read the updates in posting #1
 

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All the links in the first post loose their post id. :wacko:
 

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Crio said:
All the links in the first post loose their post id. :wacko:

A continual problem with these fora.

I have re-added them many many times.

Most frustrating.

EDIT: Rebuilt that initial page.
 
Last edited:

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Greetings All

Interregnum 2 has stalled somewhat. I am waiting for the division of China by Siafu, but more importantly on the map from Garbon/AGCEEP team. It isn't finished and they also don't have the sea zones or the province.csv to send out.

In the meantime I have started coding up the first nation, it will be the new Al-Andalus file that Calipah has worked on. This means that when the beta version of Interregnum 2 comes out it will has (at least) one working file.

Matty
 

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Still no word from Garbon on the progress of the AGCEEP map. Sadly, if that project doesn't come to fruition, I won't work on another map. I simply don't have the energy or time to redo all the work I have done.

In the meantime, I have added seven new states to mesoamerica.

Here is a link to the current distribution of nations in Interregnum 2.

Nothing done with China as Siafu has disappeared. And I am waiting for feedback on what to do with SE asia from that thread.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=cxtudct2rmm&thumb=4

Matty
 

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Any comments on the map and the distribution?

Found a whole bunch of better quality flags and shields for some countries like the Horde and Bosnia and added those (interregnum 2 only) plus flag/shield sets for the new mesoamerican nations, Tlaxcala, Tarascan, Totanac, P'urhépecha
and Huastec. Still looking for one for Cholula.
 

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it's a bit big, don't you have .JPG or so? :)
 

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MattyG

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OK, now I have RARed it first and re-uploaded to:

http://www.mediafire.com/?f0znx1nyzmx


But I can also email it to you. The size is still 13.0 MB. I have never found a way of compressing graphics to very small sizes. If you know how, please let me know.
 

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MattyG said:

Wow, that must have been a lot of work. Overall it looks quite good, but I have a few comments to make on Europe:

Orkney and Iceland should start Norwegian. Probably Jemtland as well. Of course, the probability of Scotland/Kalmar getting their hands on these places will vary, with a total victory by one or the other being very unlikely (so Kalmar is unlikely to get Orkney, but will probably get a good chunk of mainland Norway).

'Dresden' as a country - you mean Danzig? Also, doing the Teutonic Order with this setup is going to be confusing, as many of the major Teutonic settlements were in the province marked as 'Warmia'. I think I'd like to redo the Danzig events now that 'Danzig' isn't a province; given the problems of one-province minors, it might be better to have it as an 'invisible state', one that isn't large enough to be represented on the map, but which we represent by events. As such I'd give Warmia to the TO and Pomerelia to Brandenburg.

Hanseatic Porto is OK, but how is this going to affect Eire's 'Portuguese' events? The other worry I have is that this will lead to 'frozen conflicts' between the Hansa and al-Andalus, as tends to happen when you let one side in an AI war get a small but not decisive WS advantage - in this case al-Andalus will occupy Porto but be unable to occupy any other Hansa provinces.

I'm not a fan of how you've done the Western Balkans, I'm afraid. Here's how I'd divide it up:

Istria gets Istria and Carniola.

Croatia gets Croatia (surely they should get their namesake province!), Slavonia and Sirmia.

Bosnia gets Bosnia and Usora.

Kosovo was Serbian at this stage, so we might as well give it to Serbia. But it also makes sense to have landlocked Albania and you don't want to make them a 1-province minor. I don't know, maybe give Ohrid to Albania?

Otherwise, Serbia is fine. I'm thinking we should make Montenegro Dalmatian Catholic initially, but ruled by Serbia, to encourage a fight over it. However, if it's still ruled by Slavic or pro-Slavic forces later on, it could get assimilated around 1500.

Ragusa gets Hum (the city of Ragusa itself should be here - the only alternative is to put the city in Dalmatia) and Ionia, definitely. The Albanian coastal provinces are one change I do like, though, as they will make Ragusa a more significant force in the region, so they can have those. I have no idea what culture those provinces should be, though - maybe make Durazzo have Dalmatian culture, and Valona have Albanian culture. I think Ragusa could be very interesting in terms of state cultures as well if it does well early on and becomes a real major - I have some ideas for culture changes along the Adriatic coast depending on the fortunes of the various possible 'minor-majors' around there.

In the current setup, Hungary has Dalmatia, but we might well want to change this, as we don't want Hungary building a big fleet early on. Just for laughs, maybe we could give it to Genoa?


As for Byzantium, I imagined them to be slightly weaker in Europe and stronger in Asia, as the latter made up the bulk of their territory for most of real middle-late Byzantine history. As such I'd give Dardania to Bulgaria, Ohrid to Albania, and on the other side give Anatolia and Kastamonu to Byzantium. Maybe rejig the Turkish minors to have 3 Turkish minors instead of 4. Based on past experience, even with that many provinces Byzantium is probably still going to be pushed a long way back by the Abbasids and the Order of the Crescent...


We knew there would be winners and losers from the new map, but it's clear that our majors are going to be of drastically varying initial strength:

The Cossacks look pretty weak in this setup. Maybe give them Pontic Steppe and make Crimea an independent state, consisting of Crimea, Kaffa and Doros. Crimea would be Muslim but perhaps more sympathetic to the Cossacks than to the Golden Horde.

The Hansa's 'Terraferma' is more extensive than the entirety of some majors' territory, which will make the Hansa strong on land in addition to their strong naval/trade position. I'd make Vorpommern and Hinterpommern into an independent minor. Schleswig is dubious as a Hansa province as well, and should probably go to Kalmar.

Here's an idea to tone down Kalmar a bit: we ditch the Gotland inheritance event, and make Gotland count for something by giving it Finland and Osel. (Kalmar would still have cores on Gotland and Finland, though.) Just to make things interesting, Gotland could start with poor relations with its surroundings (not least because various majors have claims on them) but a decent number of galleys, good admirals and DP settings tuned for naval warfare, and we could turn into one of those wildcard minor-majors that would be fun to play.

H-V is suddenly a major player. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it might well change the overall balance of power.

I also feel a bit sorry for Sicily in this setup - at least give them Abruzzi, I'd say.
 

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Incompetent said:
Wow, that must have been a lot of work.

Yes, thanks for acknowledging this. And for all of the countries shown the .inc file is complete and the updates made to the scenario file. :cool:

Orkney and Iceland should start Norwegian. Probably Jemtland as well. Of course, the probability of Scotland/Kalmar getting their hands on these places will vary, with a total victory by one or the other being very unlikely (so Kalmar is unlikely to get Orkney, but will probably get a good chunk of mainland Norway).

OK, I'll make that change.

'Dresden' as a country - you mean Danzig? Also, doing the Teutonic Order with this setup is going to be confusing, as many of the major Teutonic settlements were in the province marked as 'Warmia'. I think I'd like to redo the Danzig events now that 'Danzig' isn't a province; given the problems of one-province minors, it might be better to have it as an 'invisible state', one that isn't large enough to be represented on the map, but which we represent by events. As such I'd give Warmia to the TO and Pomerelia to Brandenburg.

Yes, sorry, that was meant to be Danzig. But that is making the Order even bigger at game start. Could we not find room for a three-province minor in there? You know the history a little better. Perhaps it began as Danzig and then expanded ina conflict and some new duchy was estabslished.

Hanseatic Porto is OK, but how is this going to affect Eire's 'Portuguese' events? The other worry I have is that this will lead to 'frozen conflicts' between the Hansa and al-Andalus, as tends to happen when you let one side in an AI war get a small but not decisive WS advantage - in this case al-Andalus will occupy Porto but be unable to occupy any other Hansa provinces.

Your analysis is spot on. I intended that we use events to work around that. basically, if the Hansa and Al-Andalus are in a war and Al-Andalus controls that province (and Hansa control nothing else in Iberia) then the hansa get an event ehich force-cedes the province.

I'm not a fan of how you've done the Western Balkans, I'm afraid. Here's how I'd divide it up:

Istria gets Istria and Carniola.

OK

Croatia gets Croatia (surely they should get their namesake province!), Slavonia and Sirmia.

Yes, that Croatia is the name of that province is a little weird to me, but it also doesn;t folow that they should get it just because Garbon named it that way. The province splits the Dalmatian coastline and it means the province will be Slavic then, and not Dalmatian, which is what you had argued for, yes?

Bosnia gets Bosnia and Usora.

OK

Kosovo was Serbian at this stage, so we might as well give it to Serbia. But it also makes sense to have landlocked Albania and you don't want to make them a 1-province minor. I don't know, maybe give Ohrid to Albania?

Do you not think that's biting too deep into Byzantium? Are you making Serbia a little too big by giving it Kosovo as well?

Otherwise, Serbia is fine. I'm thinking we should make Montenegro Dalmatian Catholic initially, but ruled by Serbia, to encourage a fight over it. However, if it's still ruled by Slavic or pro-Slavic forces later on, it could get assimilated around 1500.

Save that thought for when/if we get the province.csv

Ragusa gets Hum (the city of Ragusa itself should be here - the only alternative is to put the city in Dalmatia) and Ionia, definitely. The Albanian coastal provinces are one change I do like, though, as they will make Ragusa a more significant force in the region, so they can have those. I have no idea what culture those provinces should be, though - maybe make Durazzo have Dalmatian culture, and Valona have Albanian culture. I think Ragusa could be very interesting in terms of state cultures as well if it does well early on and becomes a real major - I have some ideas for culture changes along the Adriatic coast depending on the fortunes of the various possible 'minor-majors' around there.

OK, good idea on Hum, although any Bosnia players will hate you. :D

In the current setup, Hungary has Dalmatia, but we might well want to change this, as we don't want Hungary building a big fleet early on. Just for laughs, maybe we could give it to Genoa?

Intriguing idea, but probably Sicily would be better as she has only four provinces, and Genoa now already starts with five. Definitely Hungary starts with no coastal provinces in Interregnum 2. Otherwise, why can't it stay with Istria?


As for Byzantium, I imagined them to be slightly weaker in Europe and stronger in Asia, as the latter made up the bulk of their territory for most of real middle-late Byzantine history. As such I'd give Dardania to Bulgaria, Ohrid to Albania, and on the other side give Anatolia and Kastamonu to Byzantium. Maybe rejig the Turkish minors to have 3 Turkish minors instead of 4. Based on past experience, even with that many provinces Byzantium is probably still going to be pushed a long way back by the Abbasids and the Order of the Crescent...

Calipah was pretty clear on wanting the Turkish minors in that configuration and I am not certain that we need to give Byzantium more than the six Asia Minor provinces they start with here.


We knew there would be winners and losers from the new map, but it's clear that our majors are going to be of drastically varying initial strength:

The Cossacks look pretty weak in this setup. Maybe give them Pontic Steppe and make Crimea an independent state, consisting of Crimea, Kaffa and Doros. Crimea would be Muslim but perhaps more sympathetic to the Cossacks than to the Golden Horde.

I like the Pontic Steppe idea but not the separate crimean state. Weakens the Horde too much.

The Hansa's 'Terraferma' is more extensive than the entirety of some majors' territory, which will make the Hansa strong on land in addition to their strong naval/trade position. I'd make Vorpommern and Hinterpommern into an independent minor. Schleswig is dubious as a Hansa province as well, and should probably go to Kalmar.

Kalmar is already huge and needs to be smaller if anything. I like the idea of creating Pommeralia or some such minor. Maybe Schleswig could be a minor too?

Here's an idea to tone down Kalmar a bit: we ditch the Gotland inheritance event, and make Gotland count for something by giving it Finland and Osel. (Kalmar would still have cores on Gotland and Finland, though.) Just to make things interesting, Gotland could start with poor relations with its surroundings (not least because various majors have claims on them) but a decent number of galleys, good admirals and DP settings tuned for naval warfare, and we could turn into one of those wildcard minor-majors that would be fun to play.

I should have read on.

Ok that's an intersting idea. How about this Gotland is actually a state that represented the 'rump' of opposition to the initial Kalmar union, a sort of Scandinavian Taiwan. Formally at least it considers itself to be the Kingdom of Sweden?

H-V is suddenly a major player. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it might well change the overall balance of power.

I think we have it right now, and the extra provinces were needed to create that balance.

I also feel a bit sorry for Sicily in this setup - at least give them Abruzzi, I'd say.

Poor old papal States. Maybe that Dalmatia option?
 

Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
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MattyG said:
Yes, sorry, that was meant to be Danzig. But that is making the Order even bigger at game start. Could we not find room for a three-province minor in there? You know the history a little better. Perhaps it began as Danzig and then expanded ina conflict and some new duchy was estabslished.

As I say, that's the heartland of the TO. It would make more sense to take provinces off the TO further north - they could certainly lose Osel (to Gotland) and Velikie Louki (to Smolensk), for instance.

When I get my hands on the new map I hope to overhaul the TO culturally. They're going to be fairly big at game start, but also unwieldy: for instance, they'll have 3 or 4 Pagan provinces, at least 2 Orthodox provinces, and wrong culture on the fringes (starting cultures: Low German, Baltic). Things will remain complicated for the TO as far as culture is concerned throughout the game.

Yes, that Croatia is the name of that province is a little weird to me, but it also doesn;t folow that they should get it just because Garbon named it that way. The province splits the Dalmatian coastline and it means the province will be Slavic then, and not Dalmatian, which is what you had argued for, yes?

Well, it doesn't have to be literally the whole coast. For Dalmatian culture I was thinking Istria, Dalmatia, Hum, Montenegro, Durazzo.

Do you not think that's biting too deep into Byzantium? Are you making Serbia a little too big by giving it Kosovo as well?

We could make Byzantium good friends with Albania. Also, we could give them Rumelia - that province has closer ties to Byzantium than Dardania does. Dardania, Rumelia and Ohrid would all be Bulgarian culture if we have that as a separate culture, otherwise Slavonic.

Serbia is a reasonable size, but poorly situated, with big bad Hungary next door. The one danger to balance is if it allies with Bulgaria and starts hitting Byzantium. We could put it in an alliance with Bosnia instead and see how those two fare against Hungary. We could also give Macva to Bosnia.

OK, good idea on Hum, although any Bosnia players will hate you. :D

Anyone who plays Bosnia in Interregnum is probably a masochist anyway :p

Intriguing idea, but probably Sicily would be better as she has only four provinces, and Genoa now already starts with five. Definitely Hungary starts with no coastal provinces in Interregnum 2. Otherwise, why can't it stay with Istria?

My thinking was that Genoa acquired it in its conquest of Venice. I'm not convinced about having Istria as a largish country - I think the reason there was a country called 'Istria' in Interregnum 1 was because it consisted of Istria as a one-province minor. AFAIK there's never been an Istrian state as such, whereas most of the states we have are based on historical entities (albeit with radically ahistorical levels of success by 1419).

Genoa starts with several provinces (7 is a fair number but not huge), but the disadvantage of having them scattered. It's similar to the Hansa in this respect. Sicily isn't huge at the start but at least has its provinces in a single block, making them much more defensible, and allowing Sicily to have more of a land focus. Also, Genoa has Milan and Savoy as major threats on its doorstep.

Calipah was pretty clear on wanting the Turkish minors in that configuration and I am not certain that we need to give Byzantium more than the six Asia Minor provinces they start with here.

I think we need Byzantium stronger in Anatolia, because in Anatolia, wars often boil down to Byzantium vs everyone else (and later, Byzantium versus uber-Abbasids), whereas in Europe, Byzantium finds it much easier to get allies, and majors like Hungary tend not to be quite as relentless.

In any case, I think Anatolia and Kastamonu provinces should probably start Orthodox (but maybe with Turkish culture), based on the fact that historically, the western third of Anatolia was majority Christian in the 15th century, even after more than a century of Muslim dominance. If there are hardly any Muslims under Christian rule, and rather more Christians under Muslim rule, that's going to make the Order of the Crescent a bit redundant, I suspect.

On the other hand, I notice you've made Georgia quite strong, and Armenia a reasonable size as well, so 'Orthodox' countries have a stronger hand further east. I'm not sure exactly how this will play out overall.

I like the Pontic Steppe idea but not the separate crimean state. Weakens the Horde too much.

A priori, the Horde is easily strong enough (though they could use a couple more provinces in the north, such as Kazan, which definitely wasn't Russian at this time); we have just chosen to weaken it with events. If those events weren't quite as severe...

Ok that's an intersting idea. How about this Gotland is actually a state that represented the 'rump' of opposition to the initial Kalmar union, a sort of Scandinavian Taiwan. Formally at least it considers itself to be the Kingdom of Sweden?

I had another idea for it (see separate thread), but perhaps a claimant to the Swedish throne could take up residence there. Restoring Sweden as Gotland would be quite a fun game.

Poor old papal States. Maybe that Dalmatia option?

How about merging Papal States and Romagna, or giving Siena to the Papal States (and giving Modena to Tuscany)?