International revolutions

[Earl Uhtred]

I'd suggest you have a conventional 19th Century conservative-reactionary grouping; a sort of liberal group (bit more nebulous, but would ideally fit either the UK or France depending on if the concept was economic or social) and a revolutionary left grouping. I'm not convinced that fascism as such calls for such a model - too nationalistic at the end of the day.

As grossly inaccurate as it is, it could take over the reactionary mantle late in the game. Absolutism was no longer a vital force, and fascism did at least have in common its rejection of the values of the French Revolution. Plus it segues nicely into the Axis.

'Course there's no credible left defender for most of the period either.

I'd say the IRL liberal defender would be Britain throughout. I figure America wouldn't take over until during WW2 - high isolationism should make it hard or impossible to claim such a title. France meanwhile just didn't have Britain's reach, never mind the Third Empire joyride.

The reactionary / fascist defender would beyond doubt be Austria until, say, 1866, Prussia / Germany thereafter, and then after the war Italy (if Italy can be called a GP) with Germany taking over right at the end.

 

[Snaake]

Sorry but your plan have failed, because for example conservatives in the different countries could be completely different people, in USSR they like socialism, in USA they like capitalism...

The defender system would more logically work off ruling party ideology or maybe upper house than total POP ideology. The system fits relatively well into the 1800s of the era as well, but I think the major merit is that it models the transition towards WWII-era ideological splits.

IMO the best solution would probably be 3 alignments, the liberals (protector of the free world, advancing democracy and personal freedom, etc.), the left (socialists/communists, regardless of whether the POPs that originally got the commies into power turn conservative later), and the right (reactionaries/conservatives early on, with fascists getting a boost to claiming this, so lategame this would always be fascists).

Complicating the system with regional versions of these feels unwieldy and overly complex, though. There could be a war goal to allow you to claim it from the current holder (Prussia vs. Austria, Prussia vs. Russia, Russia vs. Germany are the best examples) along with other methods of doing so (higher prestige?), and also some war goal for fighting other ideologies, or maybe only the other defenders... and there's your Great War right there.

It could be done so conservatives vs. liberals aren't so badly at odds as for it to be likely to cause Great Wars, but communists and fascists would be more aggressive in this respect.

Most probably an interesting aspect to add to global diplomacy for an expansion.

 

[Alexander Seil]

A rather anachronistic concept. We're not playing a three-way cold war here. There aren't supposed to be any ideological blocs in this game.

 

[Negru Voda]

A rather anachronistic concept. We're not playing a three-way cold war here. There aren't supposed to be any ideological blocs in this game.

But still there were organized acts on the Reactionary side. Like Russia intervening in Austria to calm down the Hungarians.


Personally I don't think this concept is crucial to this game either. But I would like it if ideologies were more important in the game, for example in relations, especially as far as the radical cases.

Say a fascist, anarcho-liberal or communist dictatorships or a Reactionary Monarchy. There should be some modifiers for the drift of relations (i.e. if you are at opposite poles of ideologies, your relations will suffer)

but this concept is one for consideration in the expansion (if at all)

 

[Galaahd]

Anyway I didn't mean 3 ideological blocs like those in HoI. And most of all I meant, for the defender of the liberal ideology, something like France during the Revolution (as many people feared that the liberal revolution could spread once again during the 19th century, and it could happen during 1848 if some nation, France maybe, picked up the leading role).

 

[HMAS-Nameless]

I'm thinking about 1848, but 1820 and 1831 are also fine (I know that they are not in the timeframe but they are good examples). Could there be a way to increase consciousness and militancy if there is a successful revolution in an influental nation? That could be done automatically at a continental or regional level. It would be useful to depict some historical happenings. Having only national-level revolutions would be kinda dull, imho.

What do you think?

one small problem however could be that if there is country that is costantly collapsing, for whatever reason, you would be constantly getting a consicousness and militancy hit etc. but ai probably would find a way around this anywho

 

[unmerged(75409)]

The old Vic1 had a number of social sciences techs, some of them directly related to revolutions: "Ideological Thought", "Revolution and Counter-Revolution", and so on.

Some of the global revolutions mechanisms should stay inactive for your country until you have researched those techs. That would nicely simulate that some countries remained in an "un-ideological" slumber until after WW1, while others saw quite heated ideological confrontations and "Red Scares" in the 1860s and 1870s already. (I'm thinking France and Britain, in particular, and later also Germany.)

 

[Ceeker]

That's an excellent idea if restricted to GPs. One 'Defender' per Left, Right and Centre could be exported as alliance leaders to HOI3.

I love this idea!