International revolutions

[Galaahd]

I'm thinking about 1848, but 1820 and 1831 are also fine (I know that they are not in the timeframe but they are good examples). Could there be a way to increase consciousness and militancy if there is a successful revolution in an influental nation? That could be done automatically at a continental or regional level. It would be useful to depict some historical happenings. Having only national-level revolutions would be kinda dull, imho.

Also, I've got some "weird" suggestion. Having something like "Defender of the Faith" (from EU 3) only for ideologies would surely be fun. Just think of the role France played during 1789-1815, or the role played by Austria during the Restoration. Later, the role played by the URSS. The three ideologies would be Liberalism, Conservativism and Socialism. Consciousness and militancy of civilized nation pops could be somewhat linked to the fate of those "leader" nations. Also, they would grant casus belli (like in EU 3) and the possibility to enforce similar governments in subjected nations.

What do you think?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Also, I've got some "weird" suggestion. Having something like "Defender of the Faith" (from EU 3) only for ideologies would surely be fun. Just think of the role France played during 1789-1815, or the role played by Austria during the Restoration. Later, the role played by the URSS. The three ideologies would be Liberalism, Conservativism and Socialism. Consciousness and militancy of civilized nation pops could be somewhat linked to the fate of those "leader" nations. Also, they would grant casus belli (like in EU 3) and the possibility to enforce similar governments in subjected nations.

What do you think?

That's an excellent idea if restricted to GPs. One 'Defender' per Left, Right and Centre could be exported as alliance leaders to HOI3.

 

[yourworstnightm]

Hmm, not so sure the different democratic ideologies would need their own defenders, however a defender of Democracy and a defender of Communism (think USSR) would be nice flavour (but that's all).

Thinking about revolutions spreading if they happen in a Great Power is a interesting idea, both 1848 and 1917 comes to mind. Especially in countries belonging to the Great Power's sphere of interest.

 

[unmerged(134218)]

I like the idea of having three "Defenders of the Faith" to represent the leaders of the Axis (fascism, conservativsm, reactionary), the Comintern (socialism, communism), and the Allies (liberal, anarcho-liberal).

 

[Kalelovil]

Since Victoria II is based on the Clausewitz engine we could see this modded in, depending on what triggers will be open to modders.
What has been accomplished by the Magna Mundi team for EU3 such as the spread of the religous reformation can be an inspiraton for international revolution event chains.

 

[Jia Xu]

I really like this idea of Defenders of Ideology. It's probably too late for any major new features at this point, but it would be great for an expansion.

 

[unmerged(67185)]

You can probably mod this in as a decision. That grants prestige or something else.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

I'm thinking about 1848, but 1820 and 1831 are also fine (I know that they are not in the timeframe but they are good examples). Could there be a way to increase consciousness and militancy if there is a successful revolution in an influental nation? That could be done automatically at a continental or regional level. It would be useful to depict some historical happenings. Having only national-level revolutions would be kinda dull, imho.

Also, I've got some "weird" suggestion. Having something like "Defender of the Faith" (from EU 3) only for ideologies would surely be fun. Just think of the role France played during 1789-1815, or the role played by Austria during the Restoration. Later, the role played by the URSS. The three ideologies would be Liberalism, Conservativism and Socialism. Consciousness and militancy of civilized nation pops could be somewhat linked to the fate of those "leader" nations. Also, they would grant casus belli (like in EU 3) and the possibility to enforce similar governments in subjected nations.

What do you think?

Is a Good thinking.

 

[Riffraffselbow]

You can probably mod this in as a decision. That grants prestige or something else.

I'm not too familiar with the event/decision system, but I don't think there's a way to set global flags and variables. In other words, sure, you could make a decision to become defender of the faith, but everyone could take it.

 

[Graf Koks]

I think this "Defender of the"Faith§ idea is REALLY awesome and has been giving me some nice ideas:

1. There should be a claimable title for every ideology and it should give you a spiffy title as well!
So the Defender of Communism would be the Vangaurd of the Revolution or the Defender of Reaction would be the Bastion of Restoration or something like that.

2. There should be split between the moderate and radical ideologies.

3. The strength of the effect should be dependenant upon the "rank" of your country. For example:

Tier 1 countries = the Great Powers obviously -> the effect is global

Tier 2 countries = all nations that can colonise (forgot where King said the cutoff would be) -> affects all countries you border + all on your capitals continent

Tier 3 countries = the remaining civilisied nations -> affects all your bordering nations

Of course "higher" nations could simply take the title from a lower nation...

Doing so would prevent say the UK from going on a killing spree in South America because the Communists took power in Chile and are now claiming to be the "Vangaurd of the Revolution". However a mid-ranked nation like Russia would be another matter and if a GP turned, all would be primed for a fecal hurricane.

4. As said in point 2 the radical titels would work different from the moderate titels. They would give a small MIL and CON "bonus" to all POPS of your ideology in the area of effect and maybe even make it easier to spread.
This would represent political pilgrims coming to your country, acting as apologists and those already believing in your cause saying "Wow, the guys in country X made it, so can we!"
On the other hand claiming the title would wrek relation with all countries not having your ideology and government type and would hand out CB's because you essentially want to screw the balance of power over completly!

5. Honestly, I haven't thought of the moderate defenders yet ...

BTW the categories:
Moderate ideologies: Liberalism, Socialism, Conservatism and yes Facism (!)
Radical ideologies: Anarcho-Liberalism, Communism and Reactionary

Before I get flamed to death: I don't think Fascism is moderate, however they seem to be much less prone of trying to export their Revolution.

 

[unmerged(207113)]

BTW the categories:
Moderate ideologies: Liberalism, Socialism, Conservatism and yes Facism (!)
Radical ideologies: Anarcho-Liberalism, Communism and Reactionary

Before I get flamed to death: I don't think Fascism is moderate, however they seem to be much less prone of trying to export their Revolution.

Reactionaries are not Radicals - quite the opposite.

I won't get into an argument on fascism, suffice to say:

"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."

Austen.

 

[Graf Koks]

To clarify: I meant "radical" in the sense of game mechanics. E.g. if the coalitions break down and any of these groups takes power they will change your government and this would (in theory) let themselves proclaim the defender of said ideology...

 

[hamsterwaffle]

Reactionaries are not Radicals - quite the opposite.

I won't get into an argument on fascism, suffice to say:

"Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos."

Austen.

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but National Socialism and Fascism aren't the same thing.
As for a defender of an ideology thing, wouldn't that be a problem considering that governments don't just change through revolution? I mean it wouldn't do to have the defender of conservatism suddenly elect a liberal party.

 

[unmerged(207113)]

Not to turn this into a political discussion, but National Socialism and Fascism aren't the same thing.

Good lord, I know. I was just quoting a spot of Lebowski for universal pleasure.

Austen.

 

[Tommy4ever]

The Defender of the Ideology idea is absolutely fantastic. Definately one for the expansion (Victoria : ACW apparently ).

You'd have one for Liberal democracy, one for reactionarism, Fascists etc (I don't think a conservative state would fit fell into either of these categories) and finally the defended of Socialism and Communism. Brilliant!

If you think about this further Austria would start as the reactionary defender but would lose this title after defeat to Prussia. Then the title could go to Prussia or Russia.

The British meanwhile would be the defenders of liberalism which would explain why they would intervene to protect the liberal democracy in Belgium when attacked by the Germans.

Then whichever great power goes Communist or just militantly socialist could take on the role of the defender of the workers.

I love it!

 

[Earl Uhtred]

The ideological champion could get enhanced diplomatic options too.

 

[unmerged(83493)]

This sounds like a really good idea, like supporting revolts of anarchists.

 

[Vivern]

Sorry but your plan have failed, because for example conservatives in the different countries could be completely different people, in USSR they like socialism, in USA they like capitalism. Pop ideology represents what he want social reforms, political reforms or get back to old regime.
For exampel reactionary might be not only monarchists, but also liberals or communists, if such a regime existed in the country and suddenly where replaced.
So i think this idea must be connected not to ideology but to a system, democracy, proletarian dictatorship and so on.
And the last but no the lest thing, i don't think we need this system, because bigest part of 19 century countries haven't tried to sped their ideology, but only their influence, this system may play role only in last decade of the game.

 

[EGaffney]

Sorry but your plan have failed, because for example conservatives in the different countries could be completely different people, in USSR they like socialism, in USA they like capitalism. Pop ideology represents what he want social reforms, political reforms or get back to old regime.
For exampel reactionary might be not only monarchists, but also liberals or communists, if such a regime existed in the country and suddenly where replaced.
So i think this idea must be connected not to ideology but to a system, democracy, proletarian dictatorship and so on.
And the last but no the lest thing, i don't think we need this system, because bigest part of 19 century countries haven't tried to sped their ideology, but only their influence, this system may play role only in last decade of the game.

I broadly agree with this. It's nice at the beginning and the end, but for most of the game, money is what they want. You could handle Austria etc through casus belli rules, like "balance of power" casus belli. International revolutions, on the other hand, are an unqualified excellent idea.

 

[loki100]

Sorry but your plan have failed, because for example conservatives in the different countries could be completely different people, in USSR they like socialism, in USA they like capitalism. Pop ideology represents what he want social reforms, political reforms or get back to old regime.
For exampel reactionary might be not only monarchists, but also liberals or communists, if such a regime existed in the country and suddenly where replaced.
So i think this idea must be connected not to ideology but to a system, democracy, proletarian dictatorship and so on.
And the last but no the lest thing, i don't think we need this system, because bigest part of 19 century countries haven't tried to sped their ideology, but only their influence, this system may play role only in last decade of the game.

I think the OP has come up with a brilliant suggestion that would really alter the game dynamics. This is not just a 20th C thing. The period of reaction from 1815-48 was militantly policed principally by Austria and to a lesser extent Russia. They, and other conservative powers, intervened to stamp out nationalist/liberal/socialist movements across Europe - thats one reason why 1848-9 was so generalised. Once the cracks appeared, almost every group with an interest in overturning the Congress of Vienna system had a go.

I'd suggest you have a conventional 19th Century conservative-reactionary grouping; a sort of liberal group (bit more nebulous, but would ideally fit either the UK or France depending on if the concept was economic or social) and a revolutionary left grouping. I'm not convinced that fascism as such calls for such a model - too nationalistic at the end of the day.