Internal Migration of Short-Range POPs (in Overseas Possessions)

[doublezero]

This question isn't about immigration, that subject has been beaten to death and is being discussed in other threads.
I just want to know if POPs in your overseas colonies will ever move. I have Revolutions 2.01 and VIP 0.301 installed over it.
Here are some examples.

Example1: USA. Unemployed short-range POPs in North & South America will move to nearby states. I can get short-range POPs in the Caribbean to move to the closest mainland states. For example, with the full-citizenship Socialist Party in power, I was able to convert Afro-Antilleans to clerks & craftsmen and they migrated to Florida & South Carolina. I was also able to assimilate Mexicans and various native tribes such as Dakota & Tlingit into Yankees by turning them into unemployed clerks & craftsmen. They would move to nearby states where there were unstaffed factories. As long as you can make them unemployed, it's no problem to get short-range POPs to move throughout your own continent.
But there are unemployed farmers & laborers in my African colonies. They will not move to nearby states, even if those states have gold mines. I do not expand the RGOs because I want the local Africans to move around & fill up empty provinces. But they never do.
With the full-citizenship Socialists in power, I built a factory in the Gold Coast and promoted some African Minor & Dyulas in Guinea to clerks & craftsmen to make them move there. Since Gold Coast is a real state, not a colony, any ethnic POPs moving there would probably assimilate, which is my goal. Guinea is right beside the Gold Coast. You can't get any closer, so there should be nothing stopping these short-range POPs from moving. Yet they refuse. Unemployed farmers from Volta won't move there either, even though there is gold in the Gold Coast. These POPs have no money; they should move.
I have never seen Yankees in Europe, Asia, Africa, or Australia migrate regionally within those continents. Don't know if it's possible. Overseas Yankees will also never move to the United States.
I also cannot get unemployed Aborigines in Western Australia to move to Queensland where they would assimilate.
And I already know that short-range Asians will not move anywhere if their provinces are owned by the USA. However, they will move around if they are owned by Japan.

Example2: Japan. Short-range Asians will move to nearby states, and will even move to the Japanese homeland, if they find themselves unemployed in Korea or a Northern Chinese coastal state. Japanese & Ainu will also migrate the other way onto the Asian mainland to find employment.
But I cannot figure out how to make unemployed Africans in Japanese African colonies to move anywhere. They won't even move to the next state over.
Long-range Europeans captured in Africa or anywhere else will migrate to Asia though. The problem with Europeans is they will not migrate within Japan's European states to fill up the empty factories located there. Unemployed Russian and Polish clerks & craftsmen will not move to empty European factories, they will only move to Asian factories.
I have never seen Japanese in Europe migrate regionally, nor have I ever seen them return to Asia. I think it might be possible if a Japanese POP is in a European Russian state, for it to move to an Asian Russian state. But I've never seen this happen.

Example3: Germany. Short-range Africans will move within Africa if they are unemployed. This makes it possible, once you have a real state as opposed to a colony, to attract nearby short-range POPs and attempt to assimilate them. Once you have one German POP in an African colonial province, you can gradually get the local Africans to move away until Germans dominate that province. Then you can claim it as a real national state.
Unemployed short-range Asians will also move within Asia.
Unemployed North & South Americans will never move, not within their local region and of course they will not migrate out of it.

Example4: Any Country. I have never been able to get Polynesians or Melanesians to move anywhere, under any circumstances, no matter what version of Victoria, Ricky, VIP, taxation or reform levels, or what country I am. Not even to the next island over.

Of course, immigration and internal migration is different depending on which version you're using - vanilla, Ricky, etc. In vanilla 1.01, you could play China and conquer Pacific islands & Australia off the British, and those provinces would immediately become overflowing with Chinese. But in the version I have installed, that doesn't happen. I've never seen a Chinese long or short-range POP move to Australian or Pacific island territory which I own (When I'm playing China). They refuse to leave Asia.

So that's what I've found and if it helps somebody plan their strategy, great.
Maybe somebody knows more - like maybe there is a way to get the stationary POPs I've described in the examples to actually move.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

Short-range POPs will only move to connecting provinces. I suppose there are two options, you can rename the RUT (unused long-range) tag and convert your entire population to it.
Or add that African province into an American state.


One last thing, POPs will never move (even when unemployed) when they have reserves, you need to drive taxation up or cancel exports in order to prevent them from attaining reserves.



As for getting the Polynesians out, just add the Polynesian islands to the state you want them to go (i.E. Queensland), so they'll end up migrating to New South Wales or Northern Australia, because the Polynesian islands will end up being neighbors to another state (as opposed to just being states with no connecting states).

 

[unmerged(131989)]

It's hardcoded. Short-ranged POPs will migrate over short distances (maybe a few states), and never across to another country.

 

[doublezero]

Short-range POPs will only move to connecting provinces. I suppose there are two options, you can rename the RUT (unused long-range) tag and convert your entire population to it.
Or add that African province into an American state.

So you would convert all these different tribes to the same tag? One POP at a time?
They are capable of moving to connecting or nearby states, up to a maximum of 2 states away. It doesn't have to be a contiguous province. I'm trying to understand why they don't do something they're capable of.

One last thing, POPs will never move (even when unemployed) when they have reserves, you need to drive taxation up or cancel exports in order to prevent them from attaining reserves.

The POPs in my examples had no money(reserves) and were unemployed. But they wouldn't move within their region anyways.

As for getting the Polynesians out, just add the Polynesian islands to the state you want them to go (i.E. Queensland), so they'll end up migrating to New South Wales or Northern Australia, because the Polynesian islands will end up being neighbors to another state (as opposed to just being states with no connecting states).

That looks a little bit like cheating

It's hardcoded. Short-ranged POPs will migrate over short distances (maybe a few states), and never across to another country.

Yes I know, but in the examples I showed, they aren't even moving short distances within their region. Not even to a contiguous gold province. Even when they are unemployed and penniless and starving.

 

[doublezero]

..And I just completed a game as Abyssinia to see if short-range Africans would migrate within the country. They do. They migrate exactly the same as short-range Asians do when the human player is Japan or China. When they are unemployed, they move as far as 2 states (states, not provinces) away.
I was unable to conquer any European, American, Australian or Pacific territory to see if there would be any regional migration. I assume there wouldn't have been any. And the one Asian province I got was more than 2 states away from my nearest African province, so no migration from/to there.
I assume, based upon the earlier examples, if I had conquered any more overseas territory, any unemployed Europeans + long-range Chinese POPs there would have moved to my African provinces. But they would not have moved regionally within their own continents. And no short-range POPs captured on non-African continents would have moved, anywhere, ever - even though they would move if my capital was on those continents.

So this means there is something disabling normal migration patterns on those continents which are foreign (meaning; not the home continent) for the country controlled by the human. Any provinces owned by the human on any continent in which its capital is not located do not have normal migration patterns.

I wonder what happens in the AI-controlled nations? Do they have normal migration patterns?
And what would happen in multiplayer?

 

[unmerged(48056)]

So you would convert all these different tribes to the same tag? One POP at a time?
They are capable of moving to connecting or nearby states, up to a maximum of 2 states away. It doesn't have to be a contiguous province. I'm trying to understand why they don't do something they're capable of.

I did some investigating and there's a problem with some POPs refusing to move to a connecting province, even though there's no reason for them refusing to do so. I found that the solution is simply moving them to another province and moving them again.

event = {
id = 999998
random = no
picture = farrapos_war


name = "New Identity"
desc = "Hurrah!"
style = 0

date = { month = september year = 1835 }
offset = 0
deathdate = { year = 1835 }

action_a = {
name = "We will keep our word."
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = Polynesian value = RUT }
}### (<--- Indent / Tab that. For some reason it doesn't work on these forums)
}

Create a new event file, call it "custom" and add it to the "event" under ViPscen Events. You can convert whole cultures, cultural minorities and religions into a new value, whether it be another culture or class (i.e. Slave)

 

[unmerged(48056)]

To add slavery onto your nation.


1. Load Game
2. Showid in console
3. Find Capital and Remember Province Number

Open up saved game. Ctrl + F (search text) and type in "capital = xxxx" (xxx refers to province number) and after the line = "Primitive = No", add "Slaves = Yes" under it
(Note, there is no Slave = No, hence if slavery is illegal there is no slavery line after primitive. Hence you have to type in Slavery = Yes"

 

[unmerged(131989)]

That event you wrote is trying to convert polynesian POPs to a country tag. You'd need a spare POP tag, not a country tag.

 

[unmerged(48056)]

That event you wrote is trying to convert polynesian POPs to a country tag. You'd need a spare POP tag, not a country tag.

LOL
:rofl:
You're absolutely right.


He has to use CULTURE_RUTHENIAN;Ruthenian;;;;;;;;;;x

 

[doublezero]

I did some investigating and there's a problem with some POPs refusing to move to a connecting province, even though there's no reason for them refusing to do so. I found that the solution is simply moving them to another province and moving them again.

How do you move them somewhere and back? Does it have something to do with the event you wrote below, or is there some other method?

Create a new event file, call it "custom" and add it to the "event" under ViPscen Events. You can convert whole cultures, cultural minorities and religions into a new value, whether it be another culture or class (i.e. Slave)

event = {
id = 999998
random = no
picture = farrapos_war


name = "New Identity"
desc = "Hurrah!"
style = 0

date = { month = september year = 1835 }
offset = 0
deathdate = { year = 1835 }

action_a = {
name = "We will keep our word."
command = { type = convert_pop_type which = Polynesian value = RUT }
}### (<--- Indent / Tab that. For some reason it doesn't work on these forums)
}

I believe this event is intended to convert short-range POPs into long-range Ruthenians, but this would only mean they would migrate off-continent to my homeland. I'm just trying to get them to move locally like they are capable of doing already. Converting them to long-range would mean they still wouldn't migrate locally.

Example: USA owns 2 states in Africa; Gold Coast and Volta. Gold Coast is a civilized state so USA can build factories there. There are some Yankees there. I want to send unemployed, penniless, native African Minor POPs to Gold Coast from Volta, so they will assimilate into Yankees and become more useful to me. But they won't move. Converting them into Europeans will make them move to North America, never to return, but they won't move to Gold Coast or anywhere else nearby.

 

[unmerged(179588)]

Did you check the religion of the POP´s refusing to migrate?
IIRC Pagan POP´s never migrate

 

[doublezero]

Did you check the religion of the POP´s refusing to migrate?
IIRC Pagan POP´s never migrate

No, I wasn't looking at religion. Maybe pagans won't move, but none of the other POPs, the ones which had a religion, were moving either.

Anyways, pagans will move. If you're the USA, North American tribes move when you make them unemployed.

From what I've noticed, the issue is based on a continental factor, not religion.

 

[unmerged(179588)]

Well, now that you mention it, I was playing as Spain and an event converted some aristos from Cuba into clerks. Despite having no jobs they stayed there for the whole game (not that I wouldn´t do they same, they must have been having a really good time at the beaches without worrying about getting a job :rofl:

 

[doublezero]

Right, if they're Creole or Afro-Caribbean or one of those, they won't move if you're Spain. They will move if you're Cuba, or the USA or any other Western nation.