Interfering in on-going wars

[geogus]

Hi guys

Will it be possible for a non-beligerant nation to intervene in a war or to influence it without joing the battle?

Let me give some examples

1)Austria is in war with a coalition of minor german states. The great power Prussia is not in war but is concerned that what she imagined would be a tough war for both sides is going to become an austrian total victory. Prussia wants to avoid that.

Can prussia in this case join the war in the side of german states or some way try to force an status quo peace?

2) brazil starts the game in war against break away rebelious states of piratini.
Uruguay really wants piratini to win but in no way will join in a war against brazil.

Can uruguay support piratini sending volunters, weapons or allowing retreating troops to take refuge in her territory and reorganize ( all that happened in real life)

3) the empire of haiti ( yes thats a thing, check wikipedia) invades dominican republic to unify the hispaniola island. USA doesnt want the biggest island in the caribean in the hands of a rebellious slave nation.
Can USA embargo haiti? Can usa try to blockade Haiti without going to war?

 

[dragonluke]

I think they said the only way a tag can join an ongoing war at release will be by having their sovereignty violated(which is a diplomatic action, and I think it just means "let our armies pass through or we go to war"), I don't know if you can influence them otherwise

 

[prismaticmarcus]

prussia et al will have been part of the diplomatic plays from day 1, surely.

 

[Eddie121]

There is a wonderful thread concerning war escalation.
Basically the diplomatic play never ends.
Each side accrues 'escalation points' when they loose men, which can be used to either

1. add new wargoals for existing war members
2. offer neutral countries the wargoals they want, if they join the conflict
3. make separate peace with minors of the opposing side. (Note that any wargoal thus enforced automatically gets reversed if you loose the larger war)
4. or even offer them to switch sides.

Whereas major war participants remain locked in, smaller countries have to try their best to survive and seize all the opportunities they can

Romania remained neutral in 1914. In 1916 they joined the Entente against the promise of Transylvania, Banat etc.
In November 1917 the Russian army was breaking down and they found themselves isolated. They promptly signed an armistice with the Central Powers and occupied Russian Bessarabia (Moldovia). In May 1918 the conquest of Bessarabia was confirmed in a peace treaty with the Central Powers, but they were forced to deliver grain, oil and some small concessions to Austria.
The day before the Compiegne Armistice they declared war again against the Central Powers, hence becoming part of the WW1 winners. During the following months they went on to capture Transylvania and Banat.
By the end of WW1 Romania had nearly doubled its territory.

 

[maxk94]

Yeah the actual system might not allow e.g Italy joining The Great War 1915 and Romania 1916 - very sad.

 

[niemcycle]

The system as it stands doesn't allow for countries to join mid-war, instead they have to have a Declared Interest in the region the war is targeting, and pledge their support to either side. I do see why the developers decided to go this route, as it clearly defines the shape of the war ahead of time, as opposed to what could happen in Vic2, where you nearly win a war against a OPM, then Great Britain joins their side because they just managed to become 'Friendly' with the nation.

That said, clearly defined wars definitely aren't a guarantee in any conflict, especially the chaos later on during the First World War. It would be neat to add an escalation system like the one linked above, but unlocked by tech/time, similar to the 'Great War' mechanic of Vic2, so it allows for these massive World Wars lategame.

As the current system stands, I suspect Great Wars (named as-such, at least) will either not be present, or limited to an event chain lategame, as the devs have been suspiciously silent on Great Wars, or even what a lategame war would look like, diplomatically. I could be wrong, and we could get a 'Great Wars' dev diary at some point, but I suspect Great War mechanics, adding countries mid-war, total dismantlement, etc. will come as part of a DLC.

 

[Soter I]

I could be wrong, and we could get a 'Great Wars' dev diary at some point, but I suspect Great War mechanics, adding countries mid-war, total dismantlement, etc. will come as part of a DLC.

I hope you are wrong. Had enough with Imperator's "death".

 

[luxfelix]

Is it possible to initiate a concurrent diplomatic play as a 3rd party?

 

[The Goldfinch]

Is it possible to initiate a concurrent diplomatic play as a 3rd party?

It probably is possible although it won't solve the issue. If Romania started concurrent diplomatic play in 1916, white peace would be the best they could hope for. Under the current system they would probably capitulate and lose more territory without gaining anything even if Germany lost the great war in the end

 

[DystopianAlphaOmega]

It's a tricky notion. Especially since, for example, if you're Russia beating up on the Ottomans yet again (like in the 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish War), it's not that the French and British will necessarily intervene at the start of the war. Instead, when you're just outside Constantinople, ready to enforce peace, they show up and demand you give up most of your war goals. It's realistic, but it would also be a pretty feel bad moment for the player. Minors would be even more vulnerable to this sort of situation.

I can see why they'd not include it (and programming the ai to use and react with it realistically could be difficult), but on the other hand, it would open up some interesting opportunities and situations. Victoria II did have, albeit limited, war joining partway through with new alliances forged or intervention based on having friendly relations. Other games in the series like Europa have moved away from being able to join wars partway through (often putting limits on it like how long the war has been going on), so we'll see.

 

[Oglesby]

Is it possible to initiate a concurrent diplomatic play as a 3rd party?

I am not certain about concurrent, but once it goes to war the diplomatic play is over. So what I think will happen is that new diplomatic plays can and will start during wars to cover these cases.

 

[Revolution 11]

There has been a wonderful thread proposing such a mechanic for war escalation.
The diplomatic play never really ends.
Each side accrues 'escalation points' when they loose men, which can be used to either

1. add new wargoals for existing war members
2. offer neutral countries the wargoals they want, if they join the conflict
3. make separate peace with minors of the opposing side. (Note that any wargoal thus enforced automatically gets reversed if you loose the larger war)
4. or even offer them to switch sides.

Whereas major war participants remain locked in, smaller countries have to try their best to survive and seize all the opportunities they can

Romania remained neutral in 1914. In 1916 they joined the Entente against the promise of Transylvania, Banat etc.
In November 1917 the Russian army was breaking down and they found themselves isolated. They promptly signed an armistice with the Central Powers and occupied Russian Bessarabia (Moldovia). In May 1918 the conquest of Bessarabia was confirmed in a peace treaty with the Central Powers, but they were forced to deliver grain, oil and some small concessions to Austria.
The day before the Compiegne Armistice they declared war again against the Central Powers, hence becoming part of the WW1 winners. During the following months they went on to capture Transylvania and Banat.
By the end of WW1 Romania had nearly doubled its territory.

Do you see this as a system that is active from 1836 start date or a system that unlocks with the tech tree? I am leaning towards the latter option because I see the potential for World Wars from war escalation and I don't think it serves the game well to have that happening in the 1840s, meme games aside. But this is a very interesting idea that I hope Paradox seriously considers.

 

[Revolution 11]

It's a tricky notion. Especially since, for example, if you're Russia beating up on the Ottomans yet again (like in the 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish War), it's not that the French and British will necessarily intervene at the start of the war. Instead, when you're just outside Constantinople, ready to enforce peace, they show up and demand you give up most of your war goals. It's realistic, but it would also be a pretty feel bad moment for the player. Minors would be even more vulnerable to this sort of situation.

I can see why they'd not include it (and programming the ai to use and react with it realistically could be difficult), but on the other hand, it would open up some interesting opportunities and situations. Victoria II did have, albeit limited, war joining partway through with new alliances forged or intervention based on having friendly relations. Other games in the series like Europa have moved away from being able to join wars partway through (often putting limits on it like how long the war has been going on), so we'll see.

Perhaps have the War Escalation mechanic locked in the tech tree so that early wars do not have this option. Also maybe have a meter somewhere in the War Overview panel that shows how close each side is to engaging in the War Escalation to add more allies or wargoals. You can also link this into the Alerts system so that the player gets a notification that the enemy is close to Escalating. Just some ideas to mitigate a surprise that smacks the player in the face at the moment of victory.

 

[Ferrous Will]

Back in vic2 you could interfere in a war as a GP if certain criteria are met.

It would be great to have that feature again but how that would mesh with the play system will probably need some design finesse.

I do hope that once we get a great war DD some of these concerns are addressed.

But at the very least this, i think, is moddable, since wars can be declared through events. It will take quite a bit of scripting, but if people can figure out the province targeting system from Victoria Universalis, they can probably hammer out a war escalation decision system.