Interesting Little Issue With Revolts

[General Karthos]

So, I have a faction in my court that has now tried to rebel twice to create an electoral monarchy in Ireland. The faction is led by the Knights Hospitaller who have been vassals of my nation since the end of the First Crusade when I became King of Jerusalem. In any case, as soon as the revolt fires, the war ends, because the causus belli is no longer valid. I'm assuming this is from the Grandmaster of the Knights Hospitaller becoming an Emperor level title as part of the revolt mechanics? (And if so, I need to find a way to make him the leader of my "Increase Council Power" faction as well.)

Also, everyone involved in the faction is immune to hostile action (I can't imprison them; the button is greyed out). Does anyone know how long that lasts?

 

[StarSword]

This seems like a bug.

 

[General Karthos]

This seems like a bug.

I don't think it is, because all other factions are firing normally. I think it may be an unrealized design issue related to holy orders leading factions that revolt. The "immune to hostile actions" may be something related to the possibility that when a faction fires, your game pauses. You would be able to arrest all the plotters, then send back a "I will not accede to your demands!" response. The immunity doesn't last more than a year, I can attest to that.

 

[Rags17]

I think I know the answer - the Knights Hospitallers are not allowed to war against a Christian nation so any war that they start against you is automatically invalid.

Last year I consoled myself into play as the Grandmaster of the Templars in a late 13th century start (ie after the Kingdom of Jerusalem had been pushed back to just Cyprus). I was amazed that I kept getting money given to me, but then it would magically disappear followed a few months later by the arrival of a second son of some petty Christian monarch or a brand new barony.

After a few years of getting ranted free baronies I decided that it was time to go my own way and declare independence against my liege, the Queen. But every time I tried to siege down her one and only holding I got a "Siege ends inconclusively" message. This annoyed me no end until I bailed on the game and did a ton of research - since Holy Orders are not allowed to draw the blood of coreligionists any battle with them in it is automatically voided.

I never finished that little campaign but I did work out the solution - hire some bloodthirsty mercenaries without your own moral compunctions to do the dirty deed for you. The problem there is of course trying to build up enough gold to hire them when every time you hit 300 gold you lose it all in return for another spotty faced junior son of the House of Bittalonia . . .

 

[General Karthos]

I think I know the answer - the Knights Hospitallers are not allowed to war against a Christian nation so any war that they start against you is automatically invalid.

Last year I consoled myself into play as the Grandmaster of the Templars in a late 13th century start (ie after the Kingdom of Jerusalem had been pushed back to just Cyprus). I was amazed that I kept getting money given to me, but then it would magically disappear followed a few months later by the arrival of a second son of some petty Christian monarch or a brand new barony.

After a few years of getting ranted free baronies I decided that it was time to go my own way and declare independence against my liege, the Queen. But every time I tried to siege down her one and only holding I got a "Siege ends inconclusively" message. This annoyed me no end until I bailed on the game and did a ton of research - since Holy Orders are not allowed to draw the blood of coreligionists any battle with them in it is automatically voided.

I never finished that little campaign but I did work out the solution - hire some bloodthirsty mercenaries without your own moral compunctions to do the dirty deed for you. The problem there is of course trying to build up enough gold to hire them when every time you hit 300 gold you lose it all in return for another spotty faced junior son of the House of Bittalonia . . .

Makes sense, and the AI isn't smart enough to figure out that if the leader of their revolt against me are the Knights, then the entire war becomes invalid.

Again, would be nice if I could get them (or another holy order) to be the leader of my "increase council power" revolts that I have to put down once or twice per monarch. (On the plus side, it clears out my council so that a new group of people can be grateful I gave them a council seat.)

 

[SigurdStormhand]

This reminds me of the bug where leaders of Holy Orders and Mercenary Company vassals hated Viceroyalties.

The solution is clearly to have Holy Orders prohibited from factioning - unless their liege is excommunicated.

 

[General Karthos]

This reminds me of the bug where leaders of Holy Orders and Mercenary Company vassals hated Viceroyalties.

The solution is clearly to have Holy Orders prohibited from factioning - unless their liege is excommunicated.

Or their liege is of another religion. Which, granted won't happen often, but could happen.

So Holy Orders CAN war against the armies of someone who has been excommunicated? Since nobody has ever been excommunicated in my games in years (Pope is way too lenient), I didn't actually know the answer to that question.