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WingedLion14

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At the moment, tribal vassals are in many ways a mechanic that aren't being used to their full, and do not fully depict the relationship that existed between "civilized states" and the tribes. To this, I propose a mechanic that integrates them more fully into the nation:

1. Make it impossible to directly conquer tribal land; instead, you have to either make them a tribal vassal, or wipe them out.
2. Tribal vassals are considered "your" territory, and thus require a regional governor even if you don't directly hold any land in them. There would be some mechanic and some events that simulate the relationship between them.
3. They do not join in the overlords' wars, but they do supply levies (the percentage of the full amount is dictated by a treaty inspired by CK3's vassal contracts).
4. You can found a colony in tribal territory, which converts the individual settlement to your territory and which makes it possible to integrate the tribe into your territory.
5. Tribal vassals can fight with each other and with independent tribes.

Ideally, I would love the inclusion of more local government mechanics that would enable them to remain relevant when fully integrated, to recognize the fact that local politics did matter in larger empires, but that's a suggestion for another post.
 
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IsaacCAT

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You can found a colony in tribal territory, which converts the individual settlement to your territory and which makes it possible to integrate the tribe into your territory.
Does integrating the tribe mean Integrating their culture or annexing their land?
If it is the later, I understand they will be very unhappy and try to revolt before full annexation. The mechanic for integrating a tribal vassal now goes through increasing their opinion and after some time an event fires that allows you to upgrade relationship to client state, then after 10 years and opinion above 190 you can start integrating them.
 

WingedLion14

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What does wipe out imply? Killing all their POPs? How do you do that?

I'm thinking of killing all their pops so that the land becomes colonizable; using Caesar's Gallic Wars loosely as an inspiration (historians debate whether it should be classified as a genocide). Right now it's through sieges, but I'd assume that such an update would add some means to do this.

Does integrating the tribe mean Integrating their culture or annexing their land?
If it is the later, I understand they will be very unhappy and try to revolt before full annexation. The mechanic for integrating a tribal vassal now goes through increasing their opinion and after some time an event fires that allows you to upgrade relationship to client state, then after 10 years and opinion above 190 you can start integrating them.

I'm being deliberately vague in my proposal, as I imagine that this would be a part of an update that revamps tribes. Ideally, I'd love the same update to include changes to subject relations, because at the moment, the EU4-style subjects don't really reflect the close relations that existed between "masters" and "subjects" in antiquity; it should be closer to, but not quite identical to, CK-style vassalage.
 
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IsaacCAT

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I see frustration leading to that for some players.

Very good idea overall IMO tribes need this kind of treatment. The idea of colonies in accessible territories (plains, farmlands) is neat. Gradually leaving tribes to survive in the fringes of civilization, but not disappearing. Raiding your settlements/cities from time to time and you being unable to fully conquer them, unless annihilation, the final solution. ( I hope nobody reaches that conclusion )

Three ways:
  • stupid: kill all the POP's, you will need to colonize and probably other tribes will settle there before you
  • short sighted: found a colony, alienate further the tribe but keep the vassal more closely tied to your nation while you slowly assimilate all the pops. Risk: tribal revolts, raids in your colony
  • more efficient: keep your tribal vassal "free" while being able to levy some nice tribe units. Risk: the vassal can disappear while waging war with other tribes and you will need to reconquer the new tribe
 
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Something like this was originaly going to be part of 1.5 but it was cut.

There's a good chance it will be added in 2.0

I'm thinking of killing all their pops so that the land becomes colonizable; using Caesar's Gallic Wars loosely as an inspiration (historians debate whether it should be classified as a genocide). Right now it's through sieges, but I'd assume that such an update would add some means to do this.
Caesar didn't kill most of these people outright, but he captured over 1 million gauls to sell them as slaves. But even after that Gaul was quite populated, it wasn't an empty wasteland.
This is possible but difficult to do by carpet-sieging.
 
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AggaWackTan

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Something like this was originaly going to be part of 1.5 but it was cut.

There's a good chance it will be added in 2.0

What makes you say there's a good chance it'll be added? As much as I'd like to believe it I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

As for tribal vassals, yeah I've thought they shouldn't be directly conquerable as a civilized country either.

I don't know if anyone watched 'Barbarians' on netflix, and while I'm not using that as a source I'm just saying, it might help people visualize the relationship Rome had with some tribal groups. Heavy military presence, strong armed tactics, cozying up with lick arse chiefs, bullying the others, tributes etc. It'd be fun if there were vassal interactions to represent this.

There's an option for monarchies to have their king pay 'visits' to territories, increasing loyalty. It'd be cool if a 'legion' or whatever could have a 'display strength march' where they basically patrol through tribal vassal lands.

Feudatories can only be integrated after 10 years, maybe tribal vassals could be integrated after say.... 50 years? (As a civilised nation) and in that time there's lot of vassal interactions eg. depose ambitious chief/ increase tribute/ inspire tribal conflict. Diplomacy with tribal vassals is far more directed at the chief and its's noticeable, while civilized nations are seen more as negotiating with 'The Eagle, The Empire' etc. I'd like to feel 'Civilisation Value' being a really big cultural barrier
 
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IsaacCAT

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Thay've been working on it until it was cut. As 2.0 won't be released soon, they've had half a year to finish it.
Of course it doesnt mean that tribal vassals will be reworked exctly as @WingedLion14 proposes.
Sorry, but it seems they have not worked on that feature after 1.5. I think we will have to wait until next iteration.

Nopeski. We have not touched that since it was cut for 1.5.
 
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