Integrate Russia?

[wildbillhdmax01]

As Of now I'm not sure If I should Integrate Russia as the Commonwealth. They seem really help full as a PU. Also they're colonizing. I'm stuck on whether or not to Integrate them.

Poland Stonk!

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Integrate them before you become like the unlucky guy whose PU Russia broke away because of the Bureaucratic Despotism event.

 

[Kakya]

Wait Bureaucratic Despotism can occur to junior members of a PU? That doesn't make sense, who are they overthrowing?

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

Wait Bureaucratic Despotism can occur to junior members of a PU? That doesn't make sense, who are they overthrowing?

The king?

 

[Kakya]

But if I'm the king, hence the Personal Union, why wouldn't they be overthrowing my king? So shouldn't my king get the event and not the junior partner?

 

[calvinhobbeslik]

But if I'm the king, hence the Personal Union, why wouldn't they be overthrowing my king? So shouldn't my king get the event and not the junior partner?

Their bureaucracy is different from yours and they don't care who rules your country?

 

[panionios]

Well, if you integrate, you've pretty much won (actually, you've already won).

 

[Arfa]

I'm the guy who had Russia break a PU with that event. I'll never trust a PU after admin tech 20 ever again!

 

[Incompetent]

Is there ever a reason not to integrate a junior partner (excluding HRE electors)? Even if you subsequently decide that you didn't want all that land after all, you can re-release them as a vassal, and AFAIK vassals never break away unless their suzerain is forced to release them by some third party.

 

[Pandadan]

Is there ever a reason not to integrate a junior partner (excluding HRE electors)? Even if you subsequently decide that you didn't want all that land after all, you can re-release them as a vassal, and AFAIK vassals never break away unless their suzerain is forced to release them by some third party.

Re-annexing the vassal later will hurt vassal relations. Also, since PU partners don't have to give you financial tribute, they can afford more autonomous colonization, etc.. Integrating and releasing is probably the best course of action.

 

[TheBloke]

Also, since PU partners don't have to give you financial tribute, they can afford more autonomous colonization, etc...

This is why the vassal income should be a slider, allowing transfer in either direction. So I can give them some amount of money per month (anything up to half my income or so), or no-one gives anyone anything, or they give me money.

Ideally that would go along with increased revolt risk and other downsides the more I take from them. But if it just capped out at 50%, as now, but now also allowing me to take less or give them money instead, that'd still be way better.

We might get that for all vassals eventually, given that new colonial nation vassals will quite likely have some sort of system like that.

 

[Incompetent]

Re-annexing the vassal later will hurt vassal relations. Also, since PU partners don't have to give you financial tribute, they can afford more autonomous colonization, etc.. Integrating and releasing is probably the best course of action.

The tribute is not such a big deal in the later game since it only applies to taxes, but I imagine the player can find ways to use the money. (If you need keep your subordinates well-funded, often you can just let them collect a chunk of your empire's trade.) I suppose another reason is if they're Lucky: if you annex and release, the released country won't be Lucky. Still, probably not worth the risk of Scheming Bureaucrats coming along and ruining your day. Also, if you are Emperor, it's nice to turn them into an HRE member - either to generate IA if you need to pass more reforms, or to free up a diplomatic slot if you have already passed Erbkaisertum.

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

The tribute is not such a big deal in the later game since it only applies to taxes, but I imagine the player can find ways to use the money. (If you need keep your subordinates well-funded, often you can just let them collect a chunk of your empire's trade.) I suppose another reason is if they're Lucky: if you annex and release, the released country won't be Lucky. Still, probably not worth the risk of Scheming Bureaucrats coming along and ruining your day. Also, if you are Emperor, it's nice to turn them into an HRE member - either to generate IA if you need to pass more reforms, or to free up a diplomatic slot if you have already passed Erbkaisertum.

Got too big to Join the HRE.

 

[Incompetent]

Got too big to Join the HRE.

The Emperor can always add his own provinces to the HRE

 

[wildbillhdmax01]

The Emperor can always add provinces to the HRE

But I'm not the Emperor.

 

[Damorte]

Do you no longer get AE for integrating junioir partners? When i integrated spain as portugal in my ironman game i got such a huge load of AE that all of europe basically had -250~ opinion and then proceeded to coalition war me to death.

 

[Rubidium]

But I'm not the Emperor.

All the more reason to vassalize a few electors in order to "rectify" that problem.

 

[Jaol]

This is why the vassal income should be a slider, allowing transfer in either direction. So I can give them some amount of money per month (anything up to half my income or so), or no-one gives anyone anything, or they give me money.

Ideally that would go along with increased revolt risk and other downsides the more I take from them. But if it just capped out at 50%, as now, but now also allowing me to take less or give them money instead, that'd still be way better.

We might get that for all vassals eventually, given that new colonial nation vassals will quite likely have some sort of system like that.

Agreed. But sending them gifts works pretty well too. Probably not as well for long-term regular expenses like colonies, but it definitely can get them to build in their provinces.

 

[Jaol]

Do you no longer get AE for integrating junioir partners? When i integrated spain as portugal in my ironman game i got such a huge load of AE that all of europe basically had -250~ opinion and then proceeded to coalition war me to death.

Yes, there's no AE. I just integrated Russia as Sweden, and nobody cared.

 

[Chieron]

Integrate them before you become like the unlucky guy whose PU Russia broke away because of the Bureaucratic Despotism event.

From what I've seen in one of my games, becoming a republic doesn't break PUs (even when the senior is a republic). Might have been changed, but I suspect that it can still happen.

Integrate, when you feel they have colonized enough.