Integral or Unnecessary: Unique Trees for Select Minors

[Zhein]

According to you, what type of interrelation could a Soviet and Italian tree have? [...] the Balkans.

Lol ?
Wow. Did you know that Serbian is still nowadays in the firm sphere of influence of Moscow, as much as it was in 1914 ? That Russia has kept claims alive about the Turkish Straits for more than 2 centuries ? Yet the only "interrelation" that you found out about Japan and Germany in their focus trees was Tsingtao ("because it's somewhere in China"), and you're using this as a justification for both of those tree being made together.

You live in fantasy land.
For you it's perfectly normal to have Netherlands and Mexico (and they absolutely don't interact together, or maybe you are going to tell me that somewhere in a mexican focus there is something about Curaçao)
For you, it's perfectly normal to have Germany and Japan (because somewhere in an alternate path for germany there is a focus about Tsingtao that doesn't even belong to japan, but that's ok)
For you it's absolutely horrible to imagine having Italy and Russia together because... because no reasons, we could find some easy interactions on alternate focus trees or regular focus trees regarding Balkans and the Mediterranean.

As I said already, localisation and interaction is pure fantasy and has NOTHING to do with why they chose X our Z country.

Do you even know why they made a NL focus tree ? Because they had an intern that made a thesis on NL.
That's it.
No "it interacts with mexico". No "It's in the same region". No "It has the same thematics". Everything along those lines is just pure fantasy.

 

[bitmode]

It doesn't work like that, Paradox doesn't think of thematic or regional integration for DLCs, it's pure fantasy on your side, sorry :
- Mexico got out with Netherlands, it's just two countries they put together.

Mexico is literally the example podcat brought up when explaining why Italy won't be in the next expansion:

because we try and keep to themes or close areas (mexico is in MTG because its a neighbor of USA and someone really wanted to make mexico)

Now you might not like or believe that reasoning (and the Germany rework is a counter example) but keeping to themes is not something @kimidf made up.

 

[GrandVezir]

That's a strenuous link at best. Using this to justify Mexico and NL together yet at the same time trying to convince us that "it's impossible to have Italy and Russia together" is still fantasy.

On top of my head and applying the same fantasy logic, you could have a focus for Russia about Mediterranean islands and suddenly it would make sense to have an italian focus tree ?

Man the Guns was a USA/UK rework, with navy and fuel. Arguably both the USA and the UK suffered for being jammed into the same expansion, especially their alt-history paths.

Netherlands went with UK (North Sea and colonial neighbors, plus oil).

Mexico went with USA (land neighbor, plus oil).

Barbarossa is a land war/Eastern Front rework. The Eastern Front was Italy's fourth or fifth priority, and their armies may have been large, but were mostly mediocre at best.

 

[Zhein]

Now you might not like or believe that reasoning (and the Germany rework is a counter example) but keeping to themes is not something @kimidf made up.

It's not made up by Kimidf, it's made up by podcat, paradox, and whoever. It's just that he seems to accept that at face value.

There is an important part of your quote, and it says "Someone really wanted to".
If someone really wanted to make Italy, it would have already been made, regardless of theme and region.

The rest is just fantasy excuses made by paradox.

 

[Znail]

There is a simple reason why Italy could not be in in this DLC and that is that Paradox wants to make at least one more DLC and it would be harder to sell without any major powers in it.

 

[kimidf]

It's not made up by Kimidf, it's made up by podcat, paradox, and whoever. It's just that he seems to accept that at face value.

There is an important part of your quote, and it says "Someone really wanted to".
If someone really wanted to make Italy, it would have already been made, regardless of theme and region.

The rest is just fantasy excuses made by paradox.

Surely the developers at the time of developing the DLCs will have a kind of corporate roadmap where they will have a plan about which countries they should rework for the following years to work on specific mechanics that certain countries need and this should be gradually inserted or retracted to be new or retracted mechanics. as beneficial as possible for a longer period of time possible and also this roadmap could be altered through the feedback there is in the forums between developers and consumers of the game.


Therefore, the Italian rework should have a specific series of mechanics such as despite the fact that the German alliance technically should not go to war until France was about to capitulate, the Italian civil war must also be complicated on each side of the sides, one should be a German puppet species and the other side being a member of the allies, also the power struggle between the German Nazis and the Italian fascists over the Austrian question. Too many mechanics to bring along with the brutal new logistics mechanics in the new dlc.


Also, as I said, there is nothing that can be interrelated between a Soviet rework and an Italian rework.

 

[kimidf]

There is a simple reason why Italy could not be in in this DLC and that is that Paradox wants to make at least one more DLC and it would be harder to sell without any major powers in it.

I believe soon this game will surely enter very different dynamics from the last great rework that will be Italian although surely we will see small modifications to its trees and there will come a time the most important of a dlc will not be the new approaches of the small or medium countries that will come but if they bring new very powerful mechanics that give value to the dlc in question beyond the new outbreaks as it happens in the new dlc EU IV called Leviathan

 

[Caeric]

There is a simple reason why Italy could not be in in this DLC and that is that Paradox wants to make at least one more DLC and it would be harder to sell without any major powers in it.

Well, hopefully after having been left in the dust for so long, the Italian tree will be the stronkest of stronk uber-detailed focus tree as a result.

In all seriousness though, I hope they look into improving the generic focus trees somewhat. Would make the screaming need for a 'focus tree for nation/region XYZ' less pressing.

 

[Shaka of Carthage]

I hope they look into improving the generic focus trees somewhat. Would make the screaming need for a 'focus tree for nation/region XYZ' less pressing.

That is a very reasonable suggestion. Maybe create a thread regarding suggestions for a new generic focus tree?

 

[bitmode]

In all seriousness though, I hope they look into improving the generic focus trees somewhat. Would make the screaming need for a 'focus tree for nation/region XYZ' less pressing.

But that's the reason the generic tree won't be updated. Leave them wanting more and you know they'll call you back.

The people foaming at their mouths for an Italy rework are exactly the sort of customer you want to have.

 

[kimidf]

Well, hopefully after having been left in the dust for so long, the Italian tree will be the stronkest of stronk uber-detailed focus tree as a result.

In all seriousness though, I hope they look into improving the generic focus trees somewhat. Would make the screaming need for a 'focus tree for nation/region XYZ' less pressing.

I totally agree that the current generic model tree has been out of date for a long time and has nothing flavor for the smaller nations that is why I gradually believe they should be replaced by I call regional shared trees.


That this type of trees would take the idea of the shared tree seen in the warlods that according to the different geographical areas could vary their composition a little and some could have their own branch to give it something more own flavor

 

[Zhein]

But that's the reason the generic tree won't be updated. Leave them wanting more and you know they'll call you back.

I'll add that the "focus tree" spree we have in DLCs comes from the vast number of mods about focus trees in the workshop. Same as the stolen ACW from Kaiserreich.

 

[Indyclone77]

Do you even know why they made a NL focus tree ? Because they had an intern that made a thesis on NL.

I'm sorry that you are so upset that Italy isn't getting a Focus Tree this DLC but calling a Content Designer an intern is both wrong and petty when the reasons why countries are chosen for Focus Trees has been explained by Podcat on multiple occasions.

 

[DilberDD]

There is a simple reason why Italy could not be in in this DLC and that is that Paradox wants to make at least one more DLC and it would be harder to sell without any major powers in it.

I agree. The thematic dlc argument is just window dressing (Germany was included in an Asia DLC, and Mexico in a Naval DLC). There is so much demand for a USSR and Italy update that those dlcs will be top sellers. Saving the Italy update for a future dlc will guarantee that the future dlc is a top seller.

 

[safe-keeper]

I agree. The thematic dlc argument is just window dressing (Germany was included in an Asia DLC, and Mexico in a Naval DLC). There is so much demand for a USSR and Italy update that those dlcs will be top sellers. Saving the Italy update for a future dlc will guarantee that the future dlc is a top seller.

Ooor it's because the USSR DLC is looking to be gigantic already even without Italy, and that Italy deserves to be the star of the show of its own DLC, not just tacked on to some other DLC.

 

[Zhein]

I'm sorry that you are so upset that Italy isn't getting a Focus Tree this DLC

I'm not. I'm so not upset that I don't care about focus trees, I think they are a crap mechanic but that Paradox invested way too much in them, and that they will never go away. I think that they are detrimental to the development of the game, the bug fixing, and pretty much a lot of stuff.
I stopped buying HoI4 Dlc because they are just money grabs, and I won't buy a DLC because it has some focus trees in it.

I've stopped being a paradox target customer a long time ago, ( probably somewhere along Waking the Tiger ) when they started to produce more terrible focus trees centered on fantasy alt-history in order to transform a WW2 simulation into a sandox Eu4-style game set in the 1930s-40s.

You think I'm upset because there is not Italian focus tree ? No, I'm upset because all of those justifications are just lies, and most importantly, a lot of people are just willing to accept, eat, and serve back those lies to others, and use their money on low quality half baked content. Part of the mechanics are not working as intended. Some are not even working at all. Some people are content with that. I'm not.

but calling a Content Designer an intern is both wrong and petty when the reasons why countries are chosen for Focus Trees has been explained by Podcat on multiple occasions.

And those reasons are clearly "Because someone wanted to", or "It would make more money milking the fanbase because people are waiting for those focus tree reworks so let's them make pay for it and produce lot of low quality content that will sell anyway".
The rest is just a giant smokescreen.

Is it petty ? I don't know, and I don't think so. We have reached a point where Paradox cares so little, that they are even outsourcing their DLCs.

 

[safe-keeper]

WW2 simulation

Nitpick: I don't believe HoI4 was ever a WWII simulator. From the start it was always about trying out various alt-history courses history could have taken, as opposed to HoI3, where you had to stay on course because the AI wasn't programmed to know what to do if something went even slightly off-script.

I don't approve of the more ridiculous ideas (communist USA, Austria-Hungary, Ottoman empire, etc.), but given that I can fight the historical WWII just fine despite having the option to go a-historical, I appreciate having the choice to deviate from history.

 

[Picard 359]

I hope that in future after Barbarossa will get Nordic DLC Counry pack, (Denmark Norway, Sweden, Finland)

 

[Toybasher]

I want Ecuador and Peru.

All of South America actually, but I really want to see the Ecuadorian–Peruvian War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecuadorian–Peruvian_War

Even though it would mostly just be a border conflict.

 

[Warhawg01]

I agree. The thematic dlc argument is just window dressing (Germany was included in an Asia DLC, and Mexico in a Naval DLC). There is so much demand for a USSR and Italy update that those dlcs will be top sellers. Saving the Italy update for a future dlc will guarantee that the future dlc is a top seller.

Ooor it's because the USSR DLC is looking to be gigantic already even without Italy, and that Italy deserves to be the star of the show of its own DLC, not just tacked on to some other DLC.

@safe-keeper, You say "Or" as if these viewpoints -- Barbarossa is too big to include Italy AND a future Italy DLC means big $$$ for Paradox AND Italy deserves its own DLC -- are mutually exclusive. I don't believe they are. They can all be true, regardless of the motives of Paradox; nefarious, altruistic, pure convenience, whatever.