Integral or Unnecessary: Unique Trees for Select Minors

[bitmode]

I honestly can't find the appeal of paying for something that can be made for free though mods.

There is a difference whether something can be made or actually is being made. How many countries have focus trees mods that

• are being actively maintained, i.e. work on the latest patch
• are of at least passable quality
• not massively opinionated (e.g. Poland STRONK, anime Japan etc.)
• don't require a particular set of DLC

You could fix half the game's bugs in mods or create a complete, up-to-date wiki too. But you'd need to find enough people willing to do that for free.

Focus trees don't add new mechanics , and investing time into minor countries that had a minimal impact in the game seem rather unnecessary.

Nothing is really necessary; the game is profitable. In Dota 2 you get the entire game's mechanics for free and only pay for bells and whistles. The pricing does not really have to match which parts cost more money to produce as long as the value proposition of the game as a whole works.

 

[bitmode]

What about South Africa?

South African national focus tree - Hearts of Iron 4 Wiki

hoi4.paradoxwikis.com

 

[Indyclone77]

Ultimately the goal has always been stated that everyone would get some form of focus tree, some might not like it but every DLC continues to sell well and more and more people want bigger focus trees for everyone. Ultimately the Forum is just a vocal minority of a far larger playerbase

 

[TalyonUngol]

How is killing one million russians on par with Mexico or Brazil ?

Brazil sent what, one division to fight ? And Mexico 300 volunteers ?
The number of dead or wounded from the Finn army is probably 10 times the number of troops brazil and mexico combined sent to fight in WW2.

Yes and as I said, History classes dont talk about Finland in WW2 because they weren't THAT important. They were just as important as Mexico or Brazil in that regard.

 

[Bandua_of_Gallaecia]

The scandinavia countries obviously deserve a tree, Norway and Denmark had strategic locations, Swedish ore was important and Finland is self explanatory. They are way more important than Portugal and Bulgaria at least

You have a point regarding Finland's role, but not so much for the rest.

Bulgaria literally fought in the war (and for longer than 2 months), and Portugal was just as indirectly involved as Sweden, via the leasing of Air Bases to the allies, volunteers to the Axis during Barbarossa, and the supply of tungsten to both sides. Not only that but it was also heavily involved in the Spanish Civil war, and served as the major factor in keeping Spain out of the war,.

So personally i'd rate their impact in the 1936-1945 as the following:

Denmark < Norway < Sweden < Portugal < Bulgaria < Finland

 

[blahmaster6k]

Yes and as I said, History classes dont talk about Finland in WW2 because they weren't THAT important. They were just as important as Mexico or Brazil in that regard.

Last I checked Mexico and Brazil didn't inflict hundreds of thousands of casualties to a major power or fight on the eastern front for about as long as the Germans.

 

[ThaHoward]

Yes and as I said, History classes dont talk about Finland in WW2 because they weren't THAT important. They were just as important as Mexico or Brazil in that regard.

The audacity

 

[TalyonUngol]

The audacity

Okay.

Last I checked Mexico and Brazil didn't inflict hundreds of thousands of casualties to a major power or fight on the eastern front for about as long as the Germans.

And still doesn't ignore the fact it's not a well known tidbit in history classes that Finland did this. Neither was Mexico nor Brazils involvement. It's not as important as you both are making it out to be. Mountain out of a molehill.

 

[ThaHoward]

By that logic France is much more important than USSR during the entire war as western hisroey classes focus more on the fall of France than the entire war on the eastern front. China was no more impactful than Ecuador as both are not mentioned.

 

[qer]

• are being actively maintained, i.e. work on the latest patch
• are of at least passable quality
• not massively opinionated (e.g. Poland STRONK, anime Japan etc.)
• don't require a particular set of DLC

Honestly the same critic can be made about the official trees:
-most of the trees one released have few variations despite changes in game mechanics;
-quality varies a lot from tree to tree as discussions in the forum proves and creative wise I wouldn't say adding ideology paths for the sake of it is a good quality;
- That some paths are a meme is now a meme on itself ;
- And finally all official trees require a DLC to work.

Take BtB for instance adding focus trees for Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey. Of the three nations, there is no a single major nation and one of then didn't partake into WW2 into an active manner (although being the most played of the three). All the trees feature content of dubious quality from what I read, and the DLC itself was make by a third party.

With all that said, it's obvious that if you don't intend to play this nations, you should not buy it. However, what about official expansions coming with major mechanics reworks. Why should the consumer pay a premium for a content of dubious quality? If for Barbarossa I do not intend to play alt history paths for Italy and USSR nor the additional focuses for minor nations but I'm interested on the mechanic it introduced, why should I need to pay an extra for those focus trees?

 

[Indyclone77]

DLC itself was make by a third party.

Absolutely false, Greece and Turkey were made by the Freelance Content Designer who is a full time member of the team but remotely and Bulgaria by another Content Designer.

 

[Supremeleaderpies]

look, are they necessary? Nah not at all. this is supposedly a WW2 game afterall.

are they fun? Sure the level of which varies from country to country

does it add more to the game? maybe


personally i really dont mind it. I enjoy them for what they are.

id like to see the games timeline extended out, so for me i think it would be fun to add some focus trees for post ww2 events. cuba for example. Now is any of that actually needed in the game? no not at all. But i think it would be fun.

 

[Znail]

Okay.



And still doesn't ignore the fact it's not a well known tidbit in history classes that Finland did this. Neither was Mexico nor Brazils involvement. It's not as important as you both are making it out to be. Mountain out of a molehill.

Mexico sent a whooping 300 men as volunteers. This is dwarfed by the 8000 volunteers Sweden sent to help Finland and Sweden is usually considered to not have participated in WW2. Brazil sent some 25'900 which is closer to the Swedish participation then the amount of men Finland had fighting. So it seems like we have mexican and Brazilian molehills compared with Finnish mountain.

 

[DilberDD]

Of the remaining minors who still have default trees, I consider Belgium and Finland to be the most deserving and most pertinent. I would be extremely surprised if Finland does not get an update in the Barbarossa DLC. Regarding Belgium, I believe they should have gotten an update along side the France update. I also would like to have a Norway and Brazil update.

Above all though I would prefer a USSR and Italy update before any minor nation.

 

[kimidf]

Of the remaining minors who still have default trees, I consider Belgium and Finland to be the most deserving and most pertinent. I would be extremely surprised if Finland does not get an update in the Barbarossa DLC. Regarding Belgium, I believe they should have gotten an update along side the France update. I also would like to have a Norway and Brazil update.

Above all though I would prefer a USSR and Italy update before any minor nation.

Well I agree that the Belgian Tree should have come together in the French rework, but I think they saved it for later to surely put it in a country pack of neutral countries together with Switzerland or Ireland.

Surely at this point we know a Soviet rework and the Italian one was almost impossible for it to come together since it was already impossible both trees have some kind of credible interrelation between both trees is a mainly characteristic that developers look for when choosing the approaches will come a dlc Neither the mechanics that they need would be the same, I think they would be overwhelming when developed for the developers who are surely subject to and limited a planning of several years in sight. of gradually developing the game as well as the commercial aspect of these

 

[Zhein]

Surely at this point we know a Soviet rework and the Italian one was almost impossible for it to come together since it was already impossible both trees have some kind of credible interrelation between both trees is a mainly characteristic that developers look for when choosing the approaches will come a dlc.

It doesn't work like that, Paradox doesn't think of thematic or regional integration for DLCs, it's pure fantasy on your side, sorry :
- Mexico got out with Netherlands, it's just two countries they put together.
- Germany was reworked at the same time as Japan and they have exactly 0 interaction.

Nothing prevents Italy and Russia to be made at the same time. Literally nothing. They ALREADY made focus trees for countries that had NOTHING to do one with the other and that were literally at the other side of the world from one another.

It's just a bad excuse to justify the fact that Italy isn't reworked.

You should probably look toward financial reasons if you want something closer to the truth.

 

[kimidf]

It doesn't work like that, Paradox doesn't think of thematic or regional integration for DLCs, it's pure fantasy on your side, sorry :
- Mexico got out with Netherlands, it's just two countries they put together.
- Germany was reworked at the same time as Japan and they have exactly 0 interaction.

Nothing prevents Italy and Russia to be made at the same time. Literally nothing. They ALREADY made focus trees for countries that had NOTHING to do one with the other and that were literally at the other side of the world from one another.

It's just a bad excuse to justify the fact that Italy isn't reworked.

You should probably look toward financial reasons if you want something closer to the truth.

We remember from WTT the developers already said that their intention was that it is that the trees left a dlc they had interrelations with the other trees that would come the same dlc among them for example the Mexican tree in MTG had a lot of relation to the North American rework and you can say the Dutch tree had it through the British rework and it can be said that in most cases they have fulfilled that premise in one way or another .

We remember Germany if it has in a passive way some kind of interrelation both the Japanese and the Chinese in WTT so much that It is like this in the alternative part of your tree you can get Chinese Tsintago territory

 

[Zhein]

It is like this in the alternative part of your tree you can get Chinese Tsintago territory

That's a strenuous link at best. Using this to justify Mexico and NL together yet at the same time trying to convince us that "it's impossible to have Italy and Russia together" is still fantasy.

On top of my head and applying the same fantasy logic, you could have a focus for Russia about Mediterranean islands and suddenly it would make sense to have an italian focus tree ?

 

[GSP Jr]

Personally, I find the Focus Trees as a whole as a detriment to the game.
They are restrictive (often railroading the player or AI) and often conflict with one another if not in a strictly 'historical' game.
Once one country 'goes rogue', the game just gets sillier every 70 days.
The more complicated the tree is, the more WTF moments get introduced into my game.
With all the time/money PDX has invested in the trees, they are never going away I fear.

 

[kimidf]

That's a strenuous link at best. Using this to justify Mexico and NL together yet at the same time trying to convince us that "it's impossible to have Italy and Russia together" is still fantasy.

On top of my head and applying the same fantasy logic, you could have a focus for Russia about Mediterranean islands and suddenly it would make sense to have an italian focus tree ?

According to you, what type of interrelation could a Soviet and Italian tree have?

Already the main area of Soviet influence at that time is precisely in the Baltic, Eastern Europe with its former territory of Finland, something not nothing to do, the main Italian influence area was the Mediterranean, the North African coast and the Balkans.