Inheritence and independence?

[ppga]

I have had a couple of vassals rebel because of low loyalty, and a couple leave by event. Well and good. Lately, however, I have watched (in the realm view) as three vassals just changed colour on me, without so much as a notification anywhere that I could find.

These three vassals, all counts and I'm king, just became independent, poof, by magic. From what I can gather inheritence is involved, because it looks like all of these independence events occurred when the lord died. However, in all three cases the dead lords and their heirs were all from my dynasty. I was at war when these happened, IIRC, however all three were my vassals for years.

I can understand the event-related losses, but to have vassals cease to be vassals for reasons not even worth mentioning in the log is really quite annoying. Is this WAD, a known bug, or one of the things that happen when you haven't saved and reloaded in a while?

 

[TempestDK]

I have had a couple of vassals rebel because of low loyalty, and a couple leave by event. Well and good. Lately, however, I have watched (in the realm view) as three vassals just changed colour on me, without so much as a notification anywhere that I could find.

These three vassals, all counts and I'm king, just became independent, poof, by magic. From what I can gather inheritence is involved, because it looks like all of these independence events occurred when the lord died. However, in all three cases the dead lords and their heirs were all from my dynasty. I was at war when these happened, IIRC, however all three were my vassals for years.

I can understand the event-related losses, but to have vassals cease to be vassals for reasons not even worth mentioning in the log is really quite annoying. Is this WAD, a known bug, or one of the things that happen when you haven't saved and reloaded in a while?

Were the three counts direct vassals to your king?? ... or were they vassals of one of your duke vassals??

If the latter, then the event fires for the duke and not you. That is probably why you weren't notified. Is it annoying?? - yes ... but that is sadly the way the game works in that regard

 

[ppga]

Ah-ha, thank you, I had thought that they were vassals of mine, but after loading an older save it turned out that they were all vassals to dukes of mine.

It still does seem odd though, because I have had counts leave dukes before, but then the duke always asked me to join in a war against them. Funny that there is no notice of any kind.

 

[TempestDK]

Ah-ha, thank you, I had thought that they were vassals of mine, but after loading an older save it turned out that they were all vassals to dukes of mine.

It still does seem odd though, because I have had counts leave dukes before, but then the duke always asked me to join in a war against them. Funny that there is no notice of any kind.

It is possible for vassals to leave peacefully through events ... which is probably what happened there.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

It is possible for vassals to leave peacefully through events ... which is probably what happened there.

Is that also why i sometimes don't get claims on those leaving vassals? I have to re-grab the title before i DOW them?

 

[Wezqu]

Is that also why i sometimes don't get claims on those leaving vassals? I have to re-grab the title before i DOW them?

Yes you won't get the claim on their tittle but the duke will as they weren't your vassal but your vassal's vassal.

 

[unmerged(133776)]

Yes you won't get the claim on their tittle but the duke will as they weren't your vassal but your vassal's vassal.

Ah, that little tidbit of information i wasn't aware of. No wonder.

GJScarritt goes back to every post that mentions: "Don't worry if your vassals go independent or rebel, you automatically get a claim on them." to mentally include that little caveat. Thanks

PS. And yes, i do realize they aren't my vassals, they are my vassal's vassal. But they are still MINE! <grins>

 

[jordarkelf]

One thing to remember is that if a vassal leaves your realm peacefully (through inheritance either by a foreign vassal, or because their new title is equal to your own rank) you do not get a claim, nor a notification. If you're not careful you can lose a good portion of your realm this way.

 

[Wezqu]

One thing to remember is that if a vassal leaves your realm peacefully (through inheritance either by a foreign vassal, or because their new title is equal to your own rank) you do not get a claim, nor a notification. If you're not careful you can lose a good portion of your realm this way.

It doesn't even have to be same tittle than you. It only needs to be vassal of an other nation. For example if a count inherits another count tittle that is your vassals and the other is a vassal of another nation the inheritor stays as the other country's vassal not yours. This works in any tittle and it also works when duke inherits a count.

 

[jordarkelf]

Yes, as I mentioned, inheritance by a foreign vassal (or realm). Of course you can also pick up new vassals this way, sometimes it works in your favour.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

So what's the reason of the peacfully "leaving" event for a vassal? It's annoying when I get the message "A vassal leaves you!" but nowhere states which of them. If they are those rebellous vassals that break from their liege and ask me to be their new liege from the other side of Europe (Russian or Balcanic counts who decide that the king of Portugal is a most suitable liege), then no problem. But if they are vassal from my "core territories" (let's say the count of Bari breaks, being me the king of Naples), that's really annoying.

 

[TempestDK]

If they are those rebellous vassals that break from their liege and ask me to be their new liege from the other side of Europe (Russian or Balcanic counts who decide that the king of Portugal is a most suitable liege), then no problem.

Are you sure you have the latest beta patch installed (from October)?? .. seems you might still be experiencing the random vassalization offers that happened earlier, due to the relations value being increased every time you re-load the game.

It is a bit annoying that you can't see exactly which vassal leaves from the event, but that probably won't be fixed.

 

[jordarkelf]

Can easily be fixed (with DV) by editing the events: the events are triggered by the actual independence event for the vassal, so you can safe the target there and then add a relationship hit with the target to the follow-up event (the notification). That way the name of the vassal appears in the action button of the event.
I think I got all of these edited like above for the DVIP by now.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Are you sure you have the latest beta patch installed (from October)?? .. seems you might still be experiencing the random vassalization offers that happened earlier, due to the relations value being increased every time you re-load the game.

It is a bit annoying that you can't see exactly which vassal leaves from the event, but that probably won't be fixed.

I don't have the latest patch, because, as far as I know, it's not in Spanish, and my game version is Spanish. I hate the messy language thing that appears in these situations.

And the event thing, could you post the edited event? I'd be thankful.

 

[jordarkelf]

I don't know exactly which I all altered (I don't have an unmodded DV to compare with right now), but I think these are the ones:

db\events\realm_duress.txt

# Reaction event for liege
character_event = {
	id = 6103

	picture = "event_intrigue"

	immidiate = {
		effect = { type = prestige value = 50 }
		effect = { type = piety value = 50 }
		effect = { type = relation for = previous_char value = -50 }
	}
}

character_event = {  #A vassal has declared independence.
	id = 6456

	picture = "event_claim"

	#triggered by 6452 action_b or 6453 action_b

	action_a = { #He shall pay!
		effect = { type = prestige value = 50 }
		effect = { type = piety value = -25 }
		effect = { type = random chance = 25
			effect = { type = add_trait value = vengeful }
		}
		effect = { type = relation for = previous_char value = -50 }
	}
	action_b = { #He may go in peace.
		effect = { type = prestige value = -25 }
		effect = { type = piety value = 25 }
		effect = { type = random chance = 25
			effect = { type = add_trait value = forgiving }
		}
	}
}

db\events\Heresy_Events.txt

# Liege counter-part for independence of vassal (used by event 7136 & 7137)

character_event = {
	id = 7138
	picture = "event_intrigue"

	immidiate = { # Damn
		effect = { type = prestige scale = -0.5 }
		effect = { type = relation for = previous_char value = -50 } # Notification of who broke free
	}
}

db\events\Lordship_events.txt:

# NOTE: Triggered by the code directly. Do NOT change the ID.

character_event = {
	id = 1096
	picture = "event_intrigue"

	action_a = { # Acknowledge New Liege
		effect = { type = prestige scale = 1 }
	}
	action_b = { # Refuse to acknowledge
		#effect = { type = independence }
		#effect = { type = trigger for = liege value = 9999 }
		#effect = { type = prestige scale = 1 }
		effect = { type = loyalty value = -1 }
	}
}

# Liege counter-part for independence of vassal:

character_event = {
	id = 9999
	picture = "event_intrigue"

	immidiate = { # Damn
		effect = { type = prestige scale = -0.2 }
		effect = { type = relation for = previous_char value = -50 } # Notification of who broke free
	}
}

The 'previous_char' target value is the trick here.

Don't try these in CK -- it only works in DV.

 

[Worldcrusher]

Don't know if this will help, but when I get the 'A Vassal Declares Independence' event I pause and check the scrolling update log at the bottom of the screen. Usually (not always) it will tell me that I now have a claim on such-and-such, and that is the former vassal in question.

Doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it often clears things up a bit.