Inheritance Split Help

[tafsiwerd]

I've come back to CK after a couple years and have an ironman going. I'm king of a rather beefy Ruthenia. Unfortunately it appears my realm is set to split three ways upon my death, creating two new kingdoms (Chernigov and Crimea) for my heirs. I understood this to be because of Elective Gavelkind, so I moved mountains to reform before death. Grabbed Ancestor Veneration, changed succession law to Eldership and....... my kingdom is still poised to fracture into three kingdoms upon my passing -.-
What gives? I'm 55, any way to fix this before my demise? I guess broken into questions.
1. My kingdom is definitely going to fracture if my 2nd and 3rd heir are heir to a new kingdom (even if it doesn't exist yet) right? There's no big warning, this just shows when checking individual heirs.
2. Will creating those kingdoms now (bit of a stretch getting piety in time but possible) prevent this?
3. Will landing those sons prevent it? (and if so, would I have to land all my children?)
4. I can't undo it but, would Open Succession (from doctrine) instead have solved this?
5. Realistically, how can I ever go from Kingdom -> Empire at this rate?
6. Does reforming pagan religion always make foreign pagan rulers of the same faith adopt the reformed religion, or was that because I picked Proselytize? I figure I may have messed up here since I can't holy war the remaining old Slavic kingdoms since they all insta-converted.

Thanks for the help. Stuff like this always manages to turn me off CK. I hate playing non-ironman because it's such a slippery slope to cheatsville. I get frustrated. Such regret conquering the Magyars quickly, seeing my realm would split into 2 kingdoms upon passing, destroying the Magyar title, and surprise now it splits three ways!
I am not interested in general gavelkind tips / gamey strats. Yes I know, kill all my children, make them monks, or have nothing but bastards and legitimize one. I prefer not to use such tactics and already have a large family.

 

[Lord Lorkan]

I've come back to CK after a couple years and have an ironman going. I'm king of a rather beefy Ruthenia. Unfortunately it appears my realm is set to split three ways upon my death, creating two new kingdoms (Chernigov and Crimea) for my heirs. I understood this to be because of Elective Gavelkind, so I moved mountains to reform before death. Grabbed Ancestor Veneration, changed succession law to Eldership and....... my kingdom is still poised to fracture into three kingdoms upon my passing -.-
What gives? I'm 55, any way to fix this before my demise? I guess broken into questions.
1. My kingdom is definitely going to fracture if my 2nd and 3rd heir are heir to a new kingdom (even if it doesn't exist yet) right? There's no big warning, this just shows when checking individual heirs.
2. Will creating those kingdoms now (bit of a stretch getting piety in time but possible) prevent this?
3. Will landing those sons prevent it? (and if so, would I have to land all my children?)
4. I can't undo it but, would Open Succession (from doctrine) instead have solved this?
5. Realistically, how can I ever go from Kingdom -> Empire at this rate?
6. Does reforming pagan religion always make foreign pagan rulers of the same faith adopt the reformed religion, or was that because I picked Proselytize? I figure I may have messed up here since I can't holy war the remaining old Slavic kingdoms since they all insta-converted.

Thanks for the help. Stuff like this always manages to turn me off CK. I hate playing non-ironman because it's such a slippery slope to cheatsville. I get frustrated. Such regret conquering the Magyars quickly, seeing my realm would split into 2 kingdoms upon passing, destroying the Magyar title, and surprise now it splits three ways!
I am not interested in general gavelkind tips / gamey strats. Yes I know, kill all my children, make them monks, or have nothing but bastards and legitimize one. I prefer not to use such tactics and already have a large family.

Yea is a pian, but is not exactly a CK thing more like real life feudal system thing. this happen a lot in real life more than you can imagine. Sometimes is unavoidable just like in the irl feudal stytem.
You are already 55 not a very old age for today but in medieval times you are at the deaths door. You can drop death any minute. at this point i dont thing you can do really anything. if you are into any Gavelkind law and have some duchy or in this case a couple of Kingdoms titles besides your main inevitably by gavelkind your son will become independent from you if they are heirs of the same title level as you.. You a duke your son a duke? = independent.

As as soon as you got they same level titles your first goal must be to destroy yout titles and only leave one main kingdom title. if you got your kingdoms titles by conquest like 5 year ago then you wont be able to destroy them since you need at least 10 years to able to do anything with them not to mention you need to change your succesion law for each since you can destroy them if they are with a gavekind law active.( yes pain in the ass i know)
You more safe option (if you can) is to change your succecion law to ultimogeniture or seniority but you are playing a Pagan if I uderstand correctly?

As for Landing sons Generally speaking, when you give counties to your sons under gavelkind, the system takes it into account, so it should not matter. However, mechanics can sometimes be unpredictable.

Open Succession will fix this? depends. the person with the most land becomes heir, you can easily choose your own heir by giving him, say, a barony in a county you control and keeping your other sons unlanded this could work I havent try this in a long time so dont take my word for it.

Since you dont want any general gavelkind tips and strats since you are playing as a Pagan you will be stuck with gavelkind until you reform and get feudalism. you will be fighting and waging wars againts your brothers for your titles constantly until you reach feudalism not much you can do without the normal killing your sons strats ect.

A lot of people love this gavelkind system of waging war againts your brother and your kingdom fracture but a lot other find this very annoying. As a pagan you will be doing this alot. be ready for war in advance for your bothers, mercenaries if you have the gold. Ally one of your brothers to go againts one the two of you then betray your ally brother and take all lands back. if you play your cards right you may be able to get your titles back fast. at that age and without any strat you dont want not much you can do at this point.

 

[DPS]

I've come back to CK after a couple years and have an ironman going. I'm king of a rather beefy Ruthenia. Unfortunately it appears my realm is set to split three ways upon my death, creating two new kingdoms (Chernigov and Crimea) for my heirs. I understood this to be because of Elective Gavelkind, so I moved mountains to reform before death. Grabbed Ancestor Veneration, changed succession law to Eldership and....... my kingdom is still poised to fracture into three kingdoms upon my passing -.-
What gives? I'm 55, any way to fix this before my demise? I guess broken into questions.

[/QUOTE]

If you changed your succession law, this shouldn't be happening. Have you saved so re-loaded since you changed the succession law? Sometimes the display doesn't change right away.

Just to be clear, the titles of King of Chernigov ant King of Crimea don't currently exist, correct? Given question #3 below, it would seem that they don't exist, but check to make sure. If they exist and your you hold them, then you need to chance the succession law for each of them separately. Not charging the succession laws for all hel kingdoms is a common oversight.

1. My kingdom is definitely going tyo fracture if my 2nd and 3rd heir are heir to a new kingdom (even if it doesn't exist yet) right? There's no big warning, this just shows when checking individual heirs.

[/QUOTE]
So you don't have an alert icon at the top of the screen warning you that titles will be lost on succession? There should be if you are going to lose titles.

2. Will creating those kingdoms now (bit of a stretch getting piety in time but possible) prevent this?
3. Will landing those sons prevent it? (and if so, would I have to land all my children?)

[/QUOTE]
No and no.

4. I can't undo it but, would Open Succession (from doctrine) instead have solved this?

[/QUOTE]
Ordinarily, I would say "yes", but there's something odd going on here--changing to Eldership should have solved it--so maybe not.

5. Realistically, how can I ever go from Kingdom -> Empire at this rate?

[/QUOTE]

Should be easy at this point. Go ahead and form the two kingdoms and that'll give you three kingdom titles, which will allow you to form a custom empire, assuming that you have the DLC which allows it (Charlemagne). Well, easy if you have the 8000 prestige required and 1000 cash.

6. Does reforming pagan religion always make foreign pagan rulers of the same faith adopt the reformed religion, or was that because I picked Proselytize? I figure I may have messed up here since I can't holy war the remaining old Slavic kingdoms since they all insta-converted.

[/QUOTE]
No, you just go lucky, or I suppose unlucky depending on how you look at it.

Thanks for the help. Stuff like this always manages to turn me off CK. I hate playing non-ironman because it's such a slippery slope to cheatsville. I get frustrated. Such regret conquering the Magyars quickly, seeing my realm would split into 2 kingdoms upon passing, destroying the Magyar title, and surprise now it splits three ways!

I'm not trying to be a smartass, but are you certain that you actually changed your succession law to Eldership? I once had everything set up to change my succession law to get out of Gavelkind, but then forgot to actually change it.

 

[tafsiwerd]

Thx for reply. I have certainly changed the law (the Magyars comment was referring to decades earlier). I don't remember if I reloaded yet, so hopefully that's it and I'll check it out tonight. The effect of the law switch did take place, however. My demesne limit changed and inheritance for all the lower titles consolidated to primary heir. But 2nd and 3rd heir still stood to inherit new kingdoms - which yes, don't exist yet.
I certainly don't have 8000 prestige or 1000 gold. As I've lost subjugation CB, I can't easily reclaim those kingdoms, have to eat county by county, maybe a couple duchies with a holy war. Even if I could accumulate the 8000 prestige, doesn't seem like I could acquire multiple kingdoms before the next succession - hence why I'm really freaked out. Granted, I was hoping to form Rus and not spend 8000 prestige... so I'm especially worried about Chernigov.

 

[DPS]

Do you own any other kingdom-level titles besides Ruthenia?

EDIT: something else just occurred to me. By any chance do you own any duchy titles outside of de jure Kingdom of Ruthenia? Own as in directly hold yourself, not held by vassals (unless maybe the vassals in question include your 2nd and 3rd heirs). If you do, check if any of them have Gavelkind succession.

 

[tafsiwerd]

Well that was it, just needed to reload. Feel pretty dumb posting now. Thought I had ruled that out as the issue since the rest of the succession had switched over. Thanks for the help, even if pointing out the obvious

 

[DPS]

Glad reloading fixed the problem, because otherwise you had a major, previously unknown bug on your hands