Infrastructure suggestion

[Acheron]

I'd like to suggest that instead of a percentual infrastructure, you change the system to something open ended like industry. Each infrastructure point is able to distribute one unit of supplies to the unit in the same province, an a quarter point or so in the neighbouring provinces (making some provinces much more improtant than others).
What do you think? I'd just like to simulate the fact that at least in some areas you can only squeeze in so many men and vehicles before you cannot supply them anymore. In Russia, the sheer number of provinces would somewhat mitigate this (though necessitating more thoughts on conquering than simply breaking through few provinces), but in North Africa or South-East Asia, you'd hit on the ceiling rather quickly.
Come to think of it, what about this: if your units have a supply demand higher than what the province (plus the quarter boon from neighbouring provinces), your units don't get out of supply, instead the demand of supplies over the infrastructure limit IS DOUBLED or even tripled. You DO shove the supplies there... but at literally a huge price, more petrol being used to feed the trucks than the vehicles they fill. But for certain nations with just too much IC, it is indeed feasible to overhelm the enemy with men and material at the very butt of the world.

What do you think of it?

 

[unmerged(50895)]

I'd like to suggest that instead of a percentual infrastructure, you change the system to something open ended like industry. Each infrastructure point is able to distribute one unit of supplies to the unit in the same province, an a quarter point or so in the neighbouring provinces (making some provinces much more improtant than others).
What do you think? I'd just like to simulate the fact that at least in some areas you can only squeeze in so many men and vehicles before you cannot supply them anymore. In Russia, the sheer number of provinces would somewhat mitigate this (though necessitating more thoughts on conquering than simply breaking through few provinces), but in North Africa or South-East Asia, you'd hit on the ceiling rather quickly.
Come to think of it, what about this: if your units have a supply demand higher than what the province (plus the quarter boon from neighbouring provinces), your units don't get out of supply, instead the demand of supplies over the infrastructure limit IS DOUBLED or even tripled. You DO shove the supplies there... but at literally a huge price, more petrol being used to feed the trucks than the vehicles they fill. But for certain nations with just too much IC, it is indeed feasible to overhelm the enemy with men and material at the very butt of the world.

What do you think of it?

Interesting. I played EASTFRONT/WESTFRONT/MEDFRONT in the past by columbia games (great stuff!). I remember that the amount of supply needed for units in North Africa was much higher than in other theatres. This was done to reflect that waging war in the African desert is much more difficult than say in western Europa. The units sent to the desert needed to be specially equipped (hardware adaptations like filters etc.). This is expensive. It's not easy to deploy large number of forces in places like the desert and keeping them supplied.
It was logistics that prevented Rommel from achieving his goals; equipping units initially for desert warfare is a lot of work/resources and maintaining a large force in the Libyan desert by sea supply only is a pain.
This is not very wel represented by the current system in HoI.

 

[Acheron]

Indeed PanzerMike, and if may also point out without appearing self-servingly arrogant, my suggestion would also put at least a price on putting vast armis in narrow confines like Gibraltar to make them unconquerable. Also it would reduce the efefct of Japan DOWing USSR to realistic levels (currently you can easily rush over SU iundustrial centers behind the urals with hordes of puppeted Nat China's inf, leaders or not).
But it wouldn't be set in stone, i.e. you could still build more infrastructure in provinces if you had plans in that regard there.

 

[Czert]

Hmm, I have another idea - current inra level only afect moving speed and is added for provs suplies needed/provided multiplier - e.q in desert suplies needed multiplier will be 3x provided remain same, but for e.q march terrain supplied provided will be e.q 0.8 to simulate harder supplies distrunution/annoing moskitos/malaria for certain regions...

 

[Myth]

I'd like to suggest that instead of a percentual infrastructure, you change the system to something open ended like industry. Each infrastructure point is able to distribute one unit of supplies to the unit in the same province, an a quarter point or so in the neighbouring provinces (making some provinces much more improtant than others).
What do you think? I'd just like to simulate the fact that at least in some areas you can only squeeze in so many men and vehicles before you cannot supply them anymore. In Russia, the sheer number of provinces would somewhat mitigate this (though necessitating more thoughts on conquering than simply breaking through few provinces), but in North Africa or South-East Asia, you'd hit on the ceiling rather quickly.
Come to think of it, what about this: if your units have a supply demand higher than what the province (plus the quarter boon from neighbouring provinces), your units don't get out of supply, instead the demand of supplies over the infrastructure limit IS DOUBLED or even tripled. You DO shove the supplies there... but at literally a huge price, more petrol being used to feed the trucks than the vehicles they fill. But for certain nations with just too much IC, it is indeed feasible to overhelm the enemy with men and material at the very butt of the world.

What do you think of it?

imho this is a very good idea, as it would simulate the sort of stuff you mention quite well. however, I don't think it would serve as a complete replacement of infrastructure, as infrastructure itself represents more than what your idea covers. I think it'd be possible to combine your idea with the current concept of infrastructure (somehow, no ideas at the moment) to get a pretty good system. also, a question: how would this effect TC?

 

[Plushie]

Well, TC is supposed to represent trucks, supply companies, etc, so it wouldn't be directly changed by this idea (as in, the number itself would still be dictated by IC, to represent capacity to build new trucks/planes/supply boats/etc). I can't really think of any major changes it would make to TC unless you got rid of the percentage system entirely.

 

[unmerged(73544)]

From what I have read so far, there is something to be thought about here. Often when I play HOI, I recall reading "Von Mansteins memoirs", where he talks about one (1) single rail line having to provide all the supplies to the entire south western front at the time of the Russian 1942 Winter Offensive (Uranus). When he speaks about the entire army getting their supplies over this "thread" of a supply line through partisan invested territory and you really wonder just how they survived at all. And such was born "kessel fever"

Interesting reading detailing the supply doubled in the desert etc. All these things make sense.
However please don't ask me to come up with a formula for the game engine to adequately do it. I'm sure some of you can though. Keep plugging away. I just have one request.... Can I get at least 2 rail lines for my South Western Front?

 

[Acheron]

Glad to hear that my idea got some good reviews
Finally Infrastructure would be worth at elats to look into. Currently, okay it gives you a negatove combat modifier if low, but that is true for the other guy, too. And if you voerstack, well, having one or two divisions over the limit and thus eating double (or triple) supplies will probably not hurt you much... but if you place half of the German army in the desert, or the entire US army on some pacific island, supply demand will go well through the roof.
A new thought: tank divisions of course have a higher supply demand. But if their supply demand per combatm power is lower than vanilla infantry, there'd be more use to them.
The SE-asian jungles would of course not be interesting (thanks to the negative combat modifiers tanks suffer there quite correctly), but in the desert and in Russia (particulary if infra still only gradually recovers after being reduced by a retreating army), there tanks could be a (more) potent instrument of breakthrough and (eventual) encirclement.

P.S.: The idea that infra point "spill over" and provide a quarter or even a half of their supply-support capabilities is of course to make provinces with many neighbours more valuable, them being important knot-points. Of course, they still are much more vulnerable, because they have so many neighbours

 

[unmerged(73544)]

The SE-asian jungles would of course not be interesting (thanks to the negative combat modifiers tanks suffer there quite correctly), but in the desert and in Russia (particulary if infra still only gradually recovers after being reduced by a retreating army), there tanks could be a (more) potent instrument of breakthrough and (eventual) encirclement.

Good follow up there. True that a desert enviroment was rough, but according to alot of those the history coming out of the African Campaign they say that the tank was made for that type of warfare. Like the open steppes of Russia they certainly found their worth proven. However we must use caution overall because there are areas of the desert patches that were in fact "desert sands", totally off limits to tracked vehicles.
Agreed that the Jungle zones should inhibit almost fully any use of a full Armoured Divisions potential.

 

[Acheron]

Well, jungle terrain simply gives tanks negatoive combat modifiers IIRC, so no use sedding these expensive untis there.
As for the unpassable desert sands, where these areas huge enough to qualify as own provinces in HoI 2? I doubt it, do not forget, many a plains province actually has one or several good sized cities in it for example. Their effects are just too small to display on a grand strategy game of this scale.

Yet another idea regarding infrastructuire points: when a province gets cut off, the infrastructure points provide supply for some time depending on how much infra points there are and how big the unit cut off is. The effct would be that for gaining the "enemy out of supply advantage" you'd have to hold the siege (of course you still gain the "no retreat possible" for the enemy).
Of course, a big army would still quickyl run out of supply in pretty much any province, the amount of supplies the infra points provice should be limtied as such. But a few (infrnatry) divisions, preferably in a high ifnra city province, these should really take some sieging to get out of supply,

Again, what do you guys think?