Infrastructure negligible for IC so build factories

[Henri]

The increase in IC due to infrastructure is negligible compared to the increase due to adding a factory. The formula is

IC=F*(1+F/100)*(0.7+3I/10)

I put this into an Excel spreadsheet and found that even an increase in infrastructure from 40% to 100% increases the IC less than adding a factory, for any initial number of factories.

So the rule is if you have a choice between adding infrastructure or a factory, ALWAYS ADD A FACTORY unless factories are maxed out.

As a rule of thumb, adding a factory always adds about one IC, whereas adding 10% infrastructure adds about 0.2 IC, so it takes a lot of infrastructure to make a significant difference in IC.

Of course there are other factors influencing IC (such as ministers), and there are other good reasons to increase infrastructure (such as transport capacity). So another general rule of play is for a 1936 or other early scenario with a country like Germany, build factories like hell at the start, and worry about infrastructure later when you need it.

Henri

 

[bestmajor]

true, but infra adds resources which i usually need more than IC as GER

 

[Amallric]

If you have 10 factories you'll get 1 additional IC from infra, too, and it's much cheaper.

 

[Pier]

OP: please do you math again, and now take into account the IC already in a province. In other words, change your F from 1 into 10 for example.

1 IC adds 1 IC and an additional 1% increase on the total.
10% infra adds about 3% of the current base IC plus additional benefits (resources, supply throughput, etc), but is much cheaper than a factory ( I believe 4x in IC days in good terrain, but please correct me on this).


If you want it more mathematically, the gain of 1 IC is (1 + 2*(Current IC)/100 + 1/100) * infra modifier.
The gain of 10% infra is IC*(1 + IC/100) * 0.03.

You can see immediately that if IC becomes large enough, the infra gain is bigger than the IC gain.


If you have 1 IC at 100% infra, the current "real" IC is 1.01.
If you add 1 factory, you get a new "real" IC of 2.04 for a net gain of 1.04.
If you add 10% infra, you get a new "real" IC of 1.043, for a net gain of 0.043.
Conclusion: build IC.

If you have 10 IC at 100%, the current "real" IC is 11.
If you add 1 factory, you get a new "real" IC of 12.21 for a net gain of 1.21.
If you add 10% infra, you get a new "real" IC of 11.33, for a net gain of 0.33.
Conclusion: just about break even, as the IC is 4x expensive in IC days.

If you have 20 IC at 100%, the current "real" IC is 24.
If you add 1 factory, you get a new "real" IC of 25.41 for a net gain of 1.41.
If you add 10% infra, you get a new "real" IC of 24.72, for a net gain of 0.72.
Conclusion: build infra: half the gain for 1/4 of the cost.

 

[Conanteacher]

Now these are calculations I'd like to see more often in this forum !!! Good job.

 

[Henri]

I found this formula on the web after googling for over an hour. Are you saying that this formula is not valid for AoD? Perhaps it is from an older version of HoI2? What is the correct equation for AoD and for that matter for Armageddon and Iron Cross? You are replacing F(#factories) with IC in your calculations, and in your text, you say IC when you mean factories. In my equation that I found, it was definitely F on the right side of the equation. Can you clarify this?

BTW, assuming the values you give are correct, the calculations for initial values of factories =10 is irrelevant to the beginning of the game, since few provinces have more than 3 or 4 factories initially, and it will be over a year before they have significantly more.

These equations are so important that one should not have to google for over an hour to find them.They should be in the manual.

Anyway thanks for the clarifications. Even experienced players get mind-boggled when beginning a game and figuring our what to start producing. With 3 new variations on the Hoi3 theme, it is no help that completely different research trees are introduced.

Henri

 

[Henri]

true, but infra adds resources which i usually need more than IC as GER

I thought I read somewhere on a FAQ that infra does NOT increas resources. Can someone clarify this?

Henri

 

[Beagá]

I think that both IC and infra should be built only on provinces with more than 10 IC, so that you have synergy; It´s better to build infra and IC in the brit provinces that have >10 IC than spreading IC all over the country, IMO. And yes infra does give more resources, through how much I dunno. The effect is very visible, for example, in the german provinces that produce lots of energy.

 

[Pier]

The formula is correct and it is in the AoD wiki:
http://www.paradoxian.org/aodwiki/Main_Page

Hoi2/Armageddon do not have a concentration and infrastructure effect, so 1 factory = 1 IC, 20 factories = 20 IC.

Iron Cross is a basically a glorified mod that doesn't change the fundamentals of the game, so Iron Cross + AoD = concentration effect, Iron Cross + HOI2:Arma = no concentration effect.

Before 1.05, infrastructure was slighly cheaper, and the break-even point lay at about 7 factories.

Anyhow, there is more to this than simply how to best increase your base IC or where the break-even point lays. As mentioned before, resource production gets boosted (quite significantly) by having 200% infra. Having loads of IC, but no resource to fuel it, is quite frustrating. As Italy or Germany, once I conquer Baku, or any of the Middle-Eastern provinces, the first thing I do is build infrastructure there at triple speed: let's get the oil flowing.

Similarly, the supply flow gets boosted.
Do me a favor and in your current/next Germany game, once you are knee-deep into Russia (or even after Bitter Peace fired), click on the supply map. It will go from dark green in Germany to light green in Poland to dark yellow in what is now Belarus to light yellow as you reach the Ural Mountains. The local supply efficiency drops considerably, and with that the fighting efficiency of your troops.
Now build an infrastructure highway from Poland via Minsk and Smolensk to Moscow (on every single province along the way, build infrastructure), and place garrison divisions on anti-partisan duty along the road.
See how the supply efficiency increases? Not only at the road, but also in the neighboring provinces. You can similarly start a supply highway from ports, like Sevastopol, Leningrad, or the one in nowadays Georgia, just north of Turkey.
Mad props to the AoD devs for making a system very similar to HOI3 to simulate supply highways.

 

[Pier]

I think that both IC and infra should be built only on provinces with more than 10 IC, so that you have synergy; It´s better to build infra and IC in the brit provinces that have >10 IC than spreading IC all over the country, IMO. And yes infra does give more resources, through how much I dunno.

http://www.paradoxian.org/aodwiki/Economy

It's more like this:

Want to build infra?
Do it in provinces with a high number of factories and/or a large resource production? Example: for Italy it is better to produce infra in Milan and Venice than Rome.
Other example: Germany should not only build infra in Berlin to make use of the massive concentration bonus, but also of the wicked energy production in Dusseldorf and other West-German provinces. Hint: use your province list and sort by resource production.

Want to build IC?
Do it in provinces with a high number of factories (and preferentially a high infrastructure, but there aren't a lot of provinces with low infra and high IC).
Example: in HOI2, if Germany was building loads of factories in the opening stages, people usually build them in the Eastern part of the country, as far away from the allied strategic bombers as possible. In AoD, you want to build them in provinces with high base IC, and most of them are actually in the West (Ruhr area). Then again, while it was normal to do a 2x12 factory run as Germany in HOI2:ARMA, I find myself now only building 3 or 4 factories, but way more infrastructure in resource and IC-rich provinces. The net effect is more or less the same, however, but with added bonus of way more resources.

 

[bestmajor]

I thought I read somewhere on a FAQ that infra does NOT increas resources. Can someone clarify this?

Infra does increase resources - definately. at least from AoD 1.02 - 1.05

 

[Cally]

Thank you Pier for doing the number crunching! Now we have a solid guide to follow.

 

[Henri]

http://www.paradoxian.org/aodwiki/Economy

Example: in HOI2, if Germany was building loads of factories in the opening stages, people usually build them in the Eastern part of the country, as far away from the allied strategic bombers as possible. In AoD, you want to build them in provinces with high base IC, and most of them are actually in the West (Ruhr area). Then again, while it was normal to do a 2x12 factory run as Germany in HOI2:ARMA, I find myself now only building 3 or 4 factories, but way more infrastructure in resource and IC-rich provinces. The net effect is more or less the same, however, but with added bonus of way more resources.

Another good reason why someone should update Ironhead's excellent guide "How the hec do you play this game" for AoD. I was following his recommendation to build factories in the East to avoid later bombing raids. And since his guide was for Doomsday or Armageddon, infrastructure was limited to 100% and most German provinces had at least 80% to start. Now that in AoD infra can be raised by a factor of 2, this can have a major impact on strategy. Clearly if the German is goig to build up infrastructure and factories in the West of Germany, he will also have to build up a stronger interceptor force to avoid having wholesale destruction of his infrastructure in the later game.

Another factor is the larger number of research slots in AoD. It is not quite clear to me how to use that to the best advantage. Same goes for spying.

Henri

 

[unmerged(174699)]

I find myself now only building 3 or 4 factories, but way more infrastructure in resource and IC-rich provinces. The net effect is more or less the same, however, but with added bonus of way more resources.

Don't forget about research slots.... I build 2x6 just to get 10 research teams already before '38. Massive infra building for Germany is rather unsatisfying, most of infra worthy provinces are unfortunately hills.

 

[unmerged(189717)]

I think that both IC and infra should be built only on provinces with more than 10 IC, so that you have synergy; It´s better to build infra and IC in the brit provinces that have >10 IC than spreading IC all over the country, IMO. And yes infra does give more resources, through how much I dunno. The effect is very visible, for example, in the german provinces that produce lots of energy.

To be specific, seven IC is the critical mark.