Influential loyal estates?

[Soyaman]

Hey. Quick question.

Is it possible to have an estate with a lot of influence who're also 100% loyal to the state?
I've had my fair share of coups and I was wondering if I can create a mutually beneficial alliance with one of the estates.

Thank you

 

[Strager]

no. Influence over 80% makes them hate you.

 

[Sunspawn]

Yeah, influential estates are ALWAYS bad.

 

[Maria Theresa]

I think there are events and things that give loyalty to estates so theoretically im sure it's possible but practically i wouldn't count on it happening.
But yes, as others said, influence can't be over 80% in any case. Or bad things happen. 79 influence, 100 loyalty however is theoretically possible i think.

 

[Trin Tragula]

no. Influence over 80% makes them hate you.

Not really. But influence over 80 means they run the place and that means bad things on the whole (this is what the revolt free disasters are). But they'll still be loyal unless you try to hurt them.

Low loyalty on the other hand gives its own bad effects both in the form of modifiers, unwillingness to comply when you try to confiscate land and actions by the estate against you through events.

 

[Soyaman]

Not really. But influence over 80 means they rum the place and that means bad things on the whole. But they'll still be loyal unless you try to hurt them.

So I can in theory have a Church state Estate with 100 Loyalty and say 95 Influence without the church wanting to de-throne me?
I know this is playing with fire as any bad event could tip the balance but let's just play with the thought for a moment

 

[Sunspawn]

So I can in theory have a church state with 100 Loyalty and say 95 Influence without the church wanting to de-throne me?
I know this is playing with fire as any bad event could tip the balance but let's just play with the thought for a moment

No. At >80% influence, the estate will ALWAYS try to run the state.

 

[Maria Theresa]

So I can in theory have a church state with 100 Loyalty and say 95 Influence without the church wanting to de-throne me?
I know this is playing with fire as any bad event could tip the balance but let's just play with the thought for a moment

If you have estate with over 80 influence it starts a disaster, that will do bad things. In case of nobility it reduces your trade and tax income by 25%+ some other things.

 

[Strager]

Not really. But influence over 80 means they rum the place and that means bad things on the whole. But they'll still be loyal unless you try to hurt them.

This is not whats happening. As Scotland, I got 90% influence on my nobles.... 100% loyalty. I still am getting a popup saying there is an imminent catastrophe/rebellion.

 

[Trin Tragula]

The disaster is not a rebellion. Its them being so influential that they run the state and not you.

 

[Maria Theresa]

This is not whats happening. As Scotland, I got 90% influence on my nobles.... 100% loyalty. I still am getting a popup saying there is an imminent catastrophe/rebellion.

But it is. What he said is that they will be loyal. And you said they have 100% loyalty. So whats the problem? The fact that the disaster is happening has nothing to do with their loyalty. It's not technically a rebellion. It just reduces your income because the nobles keep some of the money for themselves. Even though most disasters are rebellion-related doesn't mean that disaster = rebellion.

 

[Soyaman]

Ah right, copy that.

Some of the disasters are so horrible though, the Aristocratic Coup especially took off so much of my income !

I suppose it's a worthy sacrifice in some playthroughs, although I also suppose it depends on who you play as. The tribes being in control is absolutely horrible !

But thanks.
So I can keep a loyal nobility with enough influence to run the throne but I can also use it to my advantage with demands of support, military and others. Tempting!

 

[Trin Tragula]

It should be said that on the whole you probably want to avoid the disasters even if you do have a high loyalty estate in charge.

 

[happymix91]

The disaster is not a rebellion. Its them being so influential that they run the state and not you.

But Cossacks disaster.. Just do independant.. Actually rebellion..

 

[Sunspawn]

But Cossacks disaster.. Just do independant.. Actually rebellion..

"The disaster is not a rebellion." Not "All disasters are not rebellions".

 

[Strager]

So if an "Aristocratic Coup" is not a rebellion, what is it?

 

[TheDarkMaster]

So if an "Aristocratic Coup" is not a rebellion, what is it?

It's a bunch of nobles fucking around and partying instead of effectively running the country and you can't do anything about it because they're too powerful. It doesn't mater how much they like you, because they can't run the place properly and you can't do anything about it.

 

[Pandalicious]

If the Aristocratic Coup Disaster ticks to 100%, and you're not a Noble Republic, your government is coup'd into becoming a Noble Republic, with your current ruler as the head of state. It's an unavoidable consequence of letting the Disaster tick to 100%. Think of it as, well, a bloodless coup, not a rebellion.

When a faction reaches 80% influence or above (though the tooltip only states "above 80%" ), the Disaster starts ticking at 1% per month, with incrementally higher ticks if their influence rises higher. At 100% influence, the Disaster ticks for 5% per month, which means the Coup will happen quite fast unless you do something drastic, like revoke a lot of the relevant estate's provinces.
As far as I'm aware, you won't get any revolts or rebels from an estate having 80%+ influence, but once that Disaster ticks to 100% and activates, you'll be hit with some nasty modifiers and forced to change your government (with the Aristocratic / Plutocratic Coup but NOT with the Dominance of the Clergy disaster). Atleast with the aristocrats; full disclosure, I haven't tested the other estate coups.

 

[Strager]

Yeah it just happened to me because I only had 2 provinces under their control and revoking either cuts their loyalty by like 80% which leads to actual rebellions with more soldiers than I could ever raise. Kinda cheap to be stuck in that situation within 10 years of gameplay but oh well - it's just a test game to see if the game is ready for prime time again anyway (it's not).

 

[Oldpara]

I've noticed, that bonus you get from having loyal estate is scaling with the influence they have. Like 60% loyal Clergy with influence 20% provides you with +2,5% tax and -2,5% stability and 60% loyal Clergy with influence 60% provides +7,5% and -7,5% stability cost reduction. Not sure about malus for having unloyal estate.