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Gratianus

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I've been playing with the latest beta for 100 ingame years. I searched all characters with a bridefinder and noticed that a lot of superhuman persons were born. :eek:

The Stats are without traits.
b.gif


If I remember correctly, such thing didn't occured with 1.04a.
I think it's the problem of Aug.15th. Is there anyone who finds the same thing?
 
Last edited:

unmerged(44072)

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Stat inflation definitely occurs as the game proceeds, but that seems a little extreme to my eyes, at least for the first 100 years. My current game (admittedly only 50 years in) has only one character whose base traits average in excess of 10 among single women aged 0-25. It seems like a lot of the characters near the top of your list have that 594 number--is that a dynasty identifier, or the province of Sarkel? There might be a freak strain there.

I do think stat inflation becomes very noticeable toward the end of the game for systemic reasons. The A.I. is very conscious of stats when it searches for wives, and the vast majority of characters never marry, so an extreme form of sexual selection takes place. In addition to the visible stats, the health and fertility of the characters also tends to improve over time, making it much harder to marry into property late in the game, because sick/infertile lines naturally produce fewer children than the healthy/fertile ones.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I don't know how inheritance works precisedly--do you start out with base stats that are the average of your parents adjusted upward or downward randomly? If so, maybe it could be modified so that the start point for all stats would be averaged with 5, to prevent extreme drift. Another possibility might be to make the frequency of negative inbreeding effects more common, to reduce the chance of superstrains emerging in particular dynasties.

edited to add:

Some of them could be bastards or maybe offspring of bastards. In my last game, there was a little sheikhdom in Transoxania which was full of superhumans...one ruler after another with all stats 12+, and several office holders with primary traits of 20+. I thought it might have been because the muslim states had been almost totally wiped out, so that the few that remained had a huge selection of courtiers and little competition.
 
Last edited:

qvcatullus

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Does an inbred character pass on traits as modified by 'inbred,' or their original traits unmodified by inbred?
Or, alternately, are they infertile?

I haven't run into an inbred character in quite some time, but if they pass on unmodified traits, they would still contribute to the problem.
 

Lurken

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qvcatullus said:
Does an inbred character pass on traits as modified by 'inbred,' or their original traits unmodified by inbred?
Or, alternately, are they infertile?

I haven't run into an inbred character in quite some time, but if they pass on unmodified traits, they would still contribute to the problem.

Inbred trait does not pass on, and inbred might be useful for breeding superhumans, since they might very well have ridicolously high stats.
 

Riddermark

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why the AI marries to best stats will remain a mystery too. Its much more logical to try marriages with neighbours, best or worst to fix up relationships etc..
 

King of Men

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Best stats is very easy to write an algorithm for. Marriage for lands, ah, that would be troublesome. Anyway, I don't really see this as a problem - certainly many humans marry for stats, so surely it's good that there is at least one area where the AI can compete?
 

qvcatullus

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Especially since the game doesn't really seem to model the lasting political benefits of marriage as well as other aspects -- I wouldn't force the AI to dwell on it.

But would it really be so hard to write an algorithm that would estimate where on the line of succession an heir would fall? The game constantly computes those lines. Seems easier to write a basic behavior for than something like defense against a crusade... I can see it getting more difficult once it tries to factor in proximity and desirability of targets, but that can't be much more complicated than, say, the risks involved in spending prestige on land grabs...
 

unmerged(43765)

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I only read the first post so if this is already mentioned I apologize.

Of all the people on that list, only 3 are Christian, the rest muslim and pagan.

For historical sake it may be bad but from a gameplay standpoint it may be better or atleast interesting.
 

Quarto

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Riddermark said:
why the AI marries to best stats will remain a mystery too. Its much more logical to try marriages with neighbours, best or worst to fix up relationships etc..
How exactly would this work in CK, without major changes far beyond the scope of not just this beta, but also any future patches? Right now, there are no benefits whatsoever to marriages, apart from the (usually remote) possibility of succession. From the point of view of this game, it makes no difference whether you marry a courtier from the Middle of Nowhere (tm), or the first-born daughter of the Emperor of Byzantium. So, what exactly - other than stats - should the AI marry for?

(well, all right, I'll provide an answer, although I fear that this too is beyond the scope of the beta - the AI should marry for culture. I.e., Germans should prefer Germans, Norwegians should prefer Norwegians, etc. - this would help to keep the various dynasties bound to their culture, so that you wouldn't constantly end up with Arabs and Cumans of German ancestry ruling the HRE)
 

Gratianus

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I looked into those superhumans in detail. They are not a bastard, but some of them have only one parent. The badtard trait was removed by an event, and so, herhaps, they were bastards naturally.

Superhuman parents give birth to babies. This is why the superhumans live in particular provinces (ex.594 Sarkel). But I didn't know why those mutants were born and why they were biased to be in muslim or pagan. Is this, what we call, AI Cheat?

I'd like to say this is a "problem", even if superhumans don't spoil the game. Because the situation is not normal. Isn't there a room for re-examination?

Jabbar is not from a line of bastard.
e-gbq.jpg


Seven is without a mother.
c-jwz.jpg


Alim's father is without mother.
d-xzz.jpg
 
Last edited:
Jul 15, 2005
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Some of these you show arn't really superhuman, what with traits and all, but that Alim fellow looks like he may be one lucky bastard. Besides, what's wrong with the odd superhuman? the world needs its Saladdins!
 

unmerged(23876)

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Gratianus, i loved your screenshots. your story and the screenshots remind me of the tv show below. does anyone watch it?

mutantxlogo.jpg


i love CK more than other paradox series because it it is the only game which simulates life and genetics along with politics.
 

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qvcatullus said:
I can see it getting more difficult once it tries to factor in proximity and desirability of targets, but that can't be much more complicated than, say, the risks involved in spending prestige on land grabs...

Which, as it happens, the AI does really, really badly.
 

unmerged(2456)

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Coding for proximity could be difficult, but coding to marry for vassal, liege, rank (ie try to marry atleast to the same level if possible), allies, those you have already married as well and finally those in your court and your neighbor.

Of course that doesn't help the odd count who had no liege, no allies (with anyone worth marrying) and your court and your neighbors are empty of potential candidates, but it would be less likely.

Sure the AI could then still go after the best girls stat-wise, but atleast it would make a bit more historical sense that just picking the best person no matter where.

Of course, i don't mind it as it is now. It atleast gives humans some comptetition who like to breed. The only things i'd change are to make the AI less likely to marry someone from their own dynasty.


Oh and all the possibilities of all physical deforaties need to be bumped up. And inbred should be inherted and definatly occur more often that it does now and in more possibilites of people.
 

HisMajestyBOB

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SecondReich said:
My games usually go the opposite way. My dynasty sucks more and more as time goes on. Much more realistic, wouldn't you say? :D

Maybe you should stop playing the Habsburgs :p
 

unmerged(47028)

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I have noticed the same and I guess AI produces only Pagan and Muslim inhumans in order to oppose stronger christians.

I do not care as far as my 10,000 army loses against 3,000 with warlord because my other 10,000 men just few miles away. However, when Mongol Horde is lead by such superhumans then is completely different matter for me and the reast of Europe.
 

unmerged(47151)

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Couldn't it be made so courtiers can marry other courtiers on their own (as long as there in the same court) and in the case of extremely gender inbalanced courts, marry locals, spawning spouses that are of local culture (but still of the same religion as their spouse), this would mean that inbeciles are better able to breed and avoiding the above situation would occur. It's not going to happen in this patch though.