Infantry Tech Tree *Japan

[Vonboe]

So now that we have finally seen the HoI4 infantry tech tree, I decided to give my take on a possible Japanese infantry tech tree.

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ITALY

DENMARK

POLAND

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( Original screen shot )

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Additionally I hope they change the current motorized scout/observer and motorized engineer icons to actaully images like the motorized personal carrier

 

[Dark Jakkaru]

Pretty neat.

 

[Chukada]

You know Japan's small arm situation was pretty bad. They couldn't manufacture more submachine guns or semi-automatic rifles because they consisted of too many parts. I read somewhere that had Japan done that they would have lost the war by 1942.

I think it will be an interesting choice for Japan and China players. Do I build the latest small arms from my factories, which means I will be able to produce less guns. Or do I keep producing 1918-1936 model, so that I have enough rifles to arm my divisions. Particularly this is an interesting choice for China, as they barely had enough factories to produce small arms, no factories to produce artillery, tanks or airplanes. Maybe this means Chinese players will have to stick with manufacturing the same 1936 small arms throughout the game to equip 2.2 million soldiers.

 

[Jorvikson]

As a Japanese player I would blitz infantry tech and then focus small arms production ready for the war in China

After that I would swith to focus on Naval and air tech, hopefully with help from the Germans and Italians, so that I can invade Australia and America

 

[Chukada]

As a Japanese player I would blitz infantry tech and then focus small arms production ready for the war in China

After that I would swith to focus on Naval and air tech, hopefully with help from the Germans and Italians, so that I can invade Australia and America

There should be a penalty for that.

I think best way to balance China theatre is if Chinese player chooses to manufacture 1936 tech, and only have factories producing rifles. Nat China should be able to field a much larger force than the Japanese can field. Like they did historically, but this force would take heavy losses from Japanese divisions, and aren't great on the offense. Also the whole planning your attacks and building up organization and supplies is important. That way Japan can't take Shanghai and blitz all the way to Chongqing like one onstoppable train that doesn't need resupply or one that doesn't need a supply line.

 

[Axe99]

Nice one Vonboe, looks tops .

In terms of the motorised scout/engineer icons, someone speculated in another thread that the 'big' icons were stuff we could build in factories, while the other icons were improvements not based on building new equipment, which might be why they're small (so, for example, the two 'offshoots' of the second large infantry weapon icon might improve infantry hard attack, but wouldn't require setting up a new infantry weapon production run). It's just speculation, but it sounded good at the time so I remembered it .

 

[Caesar15]

You know Japan's small arm situation was pretty bad. They couldn't manufacture more submachine guns or semi-automatic rifles because they consisted of too many parts. I read somewhere that had Japan done that they would have lost the war by 1942.

I think it will be an interesting choice for Japan and China players. Do I build the latest small arms from my factories, which means I will be able to produce less guns. Or do I keep producing 1918-1936 model, so that I have enough rifles to arm my divisions. Particularly this is an interesting choice for China, as they barely had enough factories to produce small arms, no factories to produce artillery, tanks or airplanes. Maybe this means Chinese players will have to stick with manufacturing the same 1936 small arms throughout the game to equip 2.2 million soldiers.

Well that would make more sense, because in my Nationalist China game in hoi3 I had 1944 rifles

 

[franc001sher]

I am wondering about the tech trees of some minors, such as Chinese powers, and also some Latin American countries.

 

[Vonboe]

In terms of the motorised scout/engineer icons, someone speculated in another thread that the 'big' icons were stuff we could build in factories, while the other icons were improvements not based on building new equipment, which might be why they're small (so, for example, the two 'offshoots' of the second large infantry weapon icon might improve infantry hard attack, but wouldn't require setting up a new infantry weapon production run). It's just speculation, but it sounded good at the time so I remembered it .

Yeah that might be the case, but I'm still crossing my fingers.
I want to have a kurogane scout car so badly

A.k.a Brum :rofl:

I am wondering about the tech trees of some minors, such as Chinese powers, and also some Latin American countries.

China is pretty hard granted I don't know much about their equipment... My only guess would be for the tech1: Hanyang 88 or Chiang Kai-shek rifle + type 28 grenade, I got no idea for tech 2 or 3..

 

[Uniform764]

So now that we have finally seen the HoI4 infantry tech tree,

Where did you see it originally. Have I missed a dev diary or dev video?

 

[Big Nev]

You know Japan's small arm situation was pretty bad. They couldn't manufacture more submachine guns or semi-automatic rifles because they consisted of too many parts. I read somewhere that had Japan done that they would have lost the war by 1942.

I think it will be an interesting choice for Japan and China players. Do I build the latest small arms from my factories, which means I will be able to produce less guns. Or do I keep producing 1918-1936 model, so that I have enough rifles to arm my divisions. Particularly this is an interesting choice for China, as they barely had enough factories to produce small arms, no factories to produce artillery, tanks or airplanes. Maybe this means Chinese players will have to stick with manufacturing the same 1936 small arms throughout the game to equip 2.2 million soldiers.

You know Japan used a shed-load more mortars than anyone else to compensate for this?

The so-called knee-mortar being the classical example of (superior?) Japanese infantry weapon's technology.

I think the key point though, regarding how much Japan can produce, would be related to how many factories they have (or can build) to increase their production capacity.

 

[keynes2.0]

I was under the impression that the knee mortar was an example of Japanese shortages of infantry equipment. The Japanese could make a 81mm mortal like anyone else but the 50mm was cheaper and used cheaper ammo. But the short barrel, small diameter and lack of tripod support meant you couldn't aim it like you could a conventional mortar. I imagine there would be some conditions where the simpler, lighter weapon would be useful while an 81mm would be impractical but generally you'd want the 81mm.

 

[Chukada]

You know Japan used a shed-load more mortars than anyone else to compensate for this?

The so-called knee-mortar being the classical example of (superior?) Japanese infantry weapon's technology.

I think the key point though, regarding how much Japan can produce, would be related to how many factories they have (or can build) to increase their production capacity.

They can compensate all they want. Chinese compensated lack of artillery by hugging the enemy. Doesn't mean it was not a disadvantage.

If this game does it right. Japan should find it difficult to equip its army with semi-automatic rifles, and other fancy small arms. If Japan follows a historical path. Their small arms were completely inferior to the American's small arms in 1942, not because they couldn't come up with better weapons, but because they couldn't produce adequate numbers of those parts.

 

[Big Nev]

I was under the impression that the knee mortar was an example of Japanese shortages of infantry equipment. The Japanese could make a 81mm mortal like anyone else but the 50mm was cheaper and used cheaper ammo. But the short barrel, small diameter and lack of tripod support meant you couldn't aim it like you could a conventional mortar. I imagine there would be some conditions where the simpler, lighter weapon would be useful while an 81mm would be impractical but generally you'd want the 81mm.

Ahh . . .

no.


My assertion isn't that the "knee-mortar" was a replacement for the 81mm mortar (Japanese infantry used a lot of those too) but as an alternate source of firepower to that provided by sub-machineguns & automatic rifles that they didn't have or were in short supply.

Consider that it had accurately controllable variable range (from 50 to 200m) and that it's "short barrel" was rifled. A rifled mortar barrel! It was extremely accurate for its type and also an extremely versatile close-support weapon being carried by SNLF paratroopers (Japanese marine para's) as well as regular infantry units. It could be operated by one man and fire smoke, HE or fragmentation (air-burst) shells with special provision (fuses) for use in dense jungle.

As a mortar it could, of course, fire over walls &/or on to/in to a reverse slope/dead ground.

A few things you're going to struggle to find a sub-machinegun capable of doing.

You could also prop it up against a convenient tree & fire it horizontally if there was someone in front of you that you really didn't like. :blink:

I'll grant you that Japan had equipment shortages. But their extensive use of the "knee-mortar" wasn't because of them.

 

[alkls1234]

Where did you find these screenshots of the inf tech tree? Did I miss something?

 

[Vonboe]

Where did you see it originally. Have I missed a dev diary or dev video?

Where did you find these screenshots of the inf tech tree? Did I miss something?

The German one is the original taken from the live stream last friday, the infantry tech tree was only up like for 2sec, so there is nothing more to it than that screenshot.
The Japanese version where the weapons and motorized carriers are replaced with japanese equipment is made by me and is not an official HoI4 screenshot.

 

[尾张猫]

the post many jap and CHI national flag。。。。are Friendly forces wwwwwwww

hit friendly forces

 

[podcat]

Nice one Vonboe, looks tops .

In terms of the motorised scout/engineer icons, someone speculated in another thread that the 'big' icons were stuff we could build in factories, while the other icons were improvements not based on building new equipment, which might be why they're small (so, for example, the two 'offshoots' of the second large infantry weapon icon might improve infantry hard attack, but wouldn't require setting up a new infantry weapon production run). It's just speculation, but it sounded good at the time so I remembered it .

Yeah thats how it is. Big icons are new equipment you have to produce while small icons are regular techs

 

[Chukada]

Yeah thats how it is. Big icons are new equipment you have to produce while small icons are regular techs

Is there an effeciency loss by choosing to build the latest model of small arms?

Is it more effecient to just stick with 1918 small arms, if you were want to just produce as many small arms as possible?

 

[Meanmanturbo]

Yeah thats how it is. Big icons are new equipment you have to produce while small icons are regular techs

Imma jenious, srsly guise, I deserve, like a Nobel prize in jeniousnes

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?830106-Small-Arms-innovations-and-their-implementation-in-the-game&p=18722657&viewfull=1#post18722657