Infamy

[Viperswhip]

I haven't really played the game since Divine Wind came out, I mean, I tried Japan for a bit, but have just been busy.

So, I came back to the game, 5.1, hopped into Byzantium (accidentally left the game on hard), and promptly started my wars, all of my wars were through reconquest, and that was fine, however the Ottomans declared war on me through an alliance. The only non core province I have annexed is Granada. I always do that because you can sell it to Castille for over 1k gold, or sell it to someone else, like Venice to promote a war with Castille and erase a local fleet.

After I made peace with the Ottomans, I took 4 provinces (3 for my mission and Anatalya). During this long war (5 years or so), my war exhaustion climbed to almost 10, and I got 4 events that gave me 1 infamy for 5000 manpower and 40 ducats. However, at the end of all this I ended up with 19 infamy. What's going on? Is that because I did not declare war on the Ottomans? It shouldn't matter who declares war should it? If I somehow missed an option when I made peace, let me know, I can go back to a save.

In my peace deal, I took 4 provinces, not their capital, and had them release their cores on Kadaman and Candar and took 175 gold.

I have also hired spies in 4 of their territories which were discovered.

So, how did I get to 19 infamy?

 

[grommile]

Reclaiming cores is only infamy free if you're one of the two original participants in the war and the war was started using a Reconquest CB.

 

[Viperswhip]

Thanks. Ouch. It should still apply if the Ottomans declare war on you and you only take cores from them. I guess I will make sure I declare war on them first next time. Thankfully, no infamy in EU4.

 

[Gnorf]

Thanks. Ouch. It should still apply if the Ottomans declare war on you and you only take cores from them. I guess I will make sure I declare war on them first next time. Thankfully, no infamy in EU4.

It does if they declare with a reconquest casus belli.

 

[Viperswhip]

Okay, well, they came in through an alliance to Algiers who declared through an alliance to one of the Asia minors. So I guess they used the alliance CB.

 

[jdrou]

I believe you can take cores in a defensive war infamy-free only from the country that actually declared war (not sure if the CB really matters). If the Ottomans responded to Algiers' call-to-arms rather than declaring war themselves using alliance CB that would explain it as well. If you haven't played DW much you may not be aware that countries can receive a call-to-arms at any time, not only when the war first starts.

 

[grommile]

I believe you can take cores in a defensive war infamy-free only from the country that actually declared war (not sure if the CB really matters).

The CB definitely matters. If the CB is tagged "mutual", you get the same infamy and warscore discounts that they would, in the same way that they would. (For example: being attacked with a Holy War CB lets you take provinces from your attacker at 25% infamy cost and 100% WS cost; being attacked with a Reconquest CB lets you take your cores from your attacker at 0% infamy cost and 50% WS cost.)

If the CB is not tagged as mutual (or there was no CB), then the defender can take provinces, or demand vassalization, from the attacker at 75% infamy cost (not sure about the effect on WS cost); the only way your cores matter under these conditions is that you don't have to occupy your cores to demand them in a peace treaty.

 

[unmerged(204522)]

the proposed peace offer tells you what the infamy cost will be before you send it.....

 

[Viperswhip]

Yes, I know it does, but I was more concerned with completing my mission and moving onto the next one. I just think, regardless of how you end up there, if you have a good Casus Belli for declaring war, it should be that Cassus Belli that rules a win in a defensive war.

 

[grommile]

Yes, I know it does, but I was more concerned with completing my mission and moving onto the next one. I just think, regardless of how you end up there, if you have a good Casus Belli for declaring war, it should be that Cassus Belli that rules a win in a defensive war.

One could conceivably (if somewhat improbably) simultaneously have a Conquest CB (mission), a Holy War / Religious Liberation / Cleansing of Heresy CB (religious differences), a Liberation CB (Bill of Rights NI), an Imperial Liberation CB (Emperor vs. someone who recently annexed an Imperial prince), an Imperial Ban CB (Emperor vs. someone who owns Imperial provinces without being Imperial), a Discovered Spy CB, a Diplomatic Insult CB, a Colonialism CB (QftNW NI plus a colonial border), a Dishonored Call CB, an Alliance CB, and a Reconquest CB (cores).

 

[G_Morgan]

As a tip. If you get called into a war with someone you have cores on declare your own war. Declare a reconquest war before clicking accept. That way you don't lose your alliance and get to take your cores.

 

[jdrou]

As a tip. If you get called into a war with someone you have cores on declare your own war. Declare a reconquest war before clicking accept. That way you don't lose your alliance and get to take your cores.

Similarly, if you're declaring war on a country that has allies that you also have a CB on, attack them separately the same day so they will be separate wars and you can make separate peace using the CB benefits.

 

[amirberner]

Similarly, if you're declaring war on a country that has allies that you also have a CB on, attack them separately the same day so they will be separate wars and you can make separate peace using the CB benefits.

I think this is the most important advice for a crusading nation

 

[PandaL]

The infamy system can be annoying in some situation. Like sometimes a nation DoW you, won't peace out until you annihilate all its troops and occupy some of its provinces. However, you cant really get any provinces without getting a big infamy hit. Now as soon as you peace out, that nation become defenceless and everybody bordering it DoWs and grabs a peace of it. You do the hard work, other nations get all the reward.