Inevitable Defeat - Slovakia '44

[roverS3]

One has to admire the tenacity of those Slovaks, despite being exhausted from all the fighting before, they were the last combat unit to turn tails in the face of the leaderless Soviet Tank Division. Those Hungarian piles of consonants are pathetic!
The increased update frequency is quite frightening. It's giving me whiplash. @El Pip , are you all right?

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Yeah but...that's what actually happened. And the reason why they could never have won the war.

To my recollection, they still had "enough manpower", but were pulling it from places where they increasingly couldn't afford to w.r.t. industrial needs. My issue is more that instead of modeling this (which is quite simple to do, any serious mod handles this with a simple decision or event set), Paradox just has their MP go to zero at which point their divisions lose all ORG as well and just can't put up any kind of resistance. Very ahistorical as in OTL the Germans put up a very furious though ultimately doomed defensive effort, certainly their divisions didn't just turn tail and run backwards for 1000 km as happens in game. Which IMO makes the end of a game very disappointing as Allies or Comintern, as the game suddenly becomes a pointless stomp with no interest.

This seems to be Paradox's hamfisted attempt to force Germany to lose, since they couldn't figure out how to properly model the resource shortage that was the major contributor to Germany's doomedness as they couldn't keep up industrially once the oil, steel, etc. ran out.

 

[El Pip]

As is appropriate in an El Pip AAR. *nods sagaciously*

Bratislava is a stepping stone on the road to the hidey-hole of the TRUE Enemy, Sweden.

Wise words.

Huh...so as it turns out, everyone in this universe really is terrible and moronic. But at least the British still, somehow, end up on top anyway.

British in the broadest sense, there are a decent number of Empire divisions scattered about the place and even a few US ones. That said American air power is mostly focused on (failing) to bomb Ecuador, so there is still a generous helping of moronic decision making going on. Luckily superior British tea-based leadership can overcome even the worst decisions of their allies.

But enough ranting at Paradox from me, I must of course defer to the authAAR and leave the best material for our glorious overlord.

Yeah but...that's what actually happened. And the reason why they could never have won the war.

To my recollection, they still had "enough manpower", but were pulling it from places where they increasingly couldn't afford to w.r.t. industrial needs. My issue is more that instead of modeling this (which is quite simple to do, any serious mod handles this with a simple decision or event set), Paradox just has their MP go to zero at which point their divisions lose all ORG as well and just can't put up any kind of resistance. Very ahistorical as in OTL the Germans put up a very furious though ultimately doomed defensive effort, certainly their divisions didn't just turn tail and run backwards for 1000 km as happens in game. Which IMO makes the end of a game very disappointing as Allies or Comintern, as the game suddenly becomes a pointless stomp with no interest.

I believe @nuclearslurpee has the right of it, Germany didn't really hit the true bottom of the manpower barrel till early 1945. For instance it was 'only' very late in 1944 that Germany started conscripting 16 and 17 year olds, which is crazy and awful but gives an idea of when desperation really set in. There should be enough men to put up a spirited resistance to the Battle of Normandy (or as best you can when the enemy has air supremacy) and to inflict horrific casualties on the Eastern Front - for all the success of Operation Bagration, Soviet manpower losses were still double the Germans. Plus the Soviet lost 3,000 tanks. 3,000! They only committed 4,000 to the operation. Germany had a few hundred tops deployed.

This seems to be Paradox's hamfisted attempt to force Germany to lose, since they couldn't figure out how to properly model the resource shortage that was the major contributor to Germany's doomedness as they couldn't keep up industrially once the oil, steel, etc. ran out.

Sad thing is the resource shortage could be interesting. Actually tracking it in detail would be quite dull, but there are some interesting strategic decisions involved. Classic one is Tungsten, Germany had decent pre-war stocks but couldn't really get any new supplies. So by 1943 the choice was; anti-tank rounds or machine tools? Or as the Germans chose try to do a bit of both, which hits industrial production and tank effectiveness.

I certainly agree the way the manpower shortage is implemented just doesn't work, so you do need emergency manpower events (like most mods have) to keep the AI in the game. Of course Paradox could have just fixed the underlying problem, but that would have required work so that was never realistic.

One has to admire the tenacity of those Slovaks, despite being exhausted from all the fighting before, they were the last combat unit to turn tails in the face of the leaderless Soviet Tank Division. Those Hungarian piles of consonants are pathetic!
The increased update frequency is quite frightening. It's giving me whiplash. @El Pip , are you all right?

The Slovaks have many issues, but their actual deployed divisions aren't bad as individual units. It' just that a couple of divisions will make no difference at all in the European theatre.

Things are about to get worse, if everything works out we should have a second update before Monday. Yes, we risk breaching the 1 week barrier....

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

British in the broadest sense,

Seems to be the most common sense when using the word.

There should be enough men to put up a spirited resistance to the Battle of Normandy (or as best you can when the enemy has air supremacy) and to inflict horrific casualties on the Eastern Front - for all the success of Operation Bagration,

True, but how would you then simulate how well the German high command were duped into thinking that the D Day landings were happening in Calais, to the point where they refused to reinforce the beaches at Normandy cebcause they knew it was a feint?

The whole bookmark is a little disingenuous though since by 1944 the Axis are screwed and everyone knows it, so the only thing of interest is how badly the Pacific war goes, and who takes the most land in Europe before the Cold War starts.

 

[Wraith11B]

I believe @nuclearslurpee has the right of it, Germany didn't really hit the true bottom of the manpower barrel till early 1945. For instance it was 'only' very late in 1944 that Germany started conscripting 16 and 17 year olds, which is crazy and awful but gives an idea of when desperation really set in. There should be enough men to put up a spirited resistance to the Battle of Normandy (or as best you can when the enemy has air supremacy) and to inflict horrific casualties on the Eastern Front - for all the success of Operation Bagration, Soviet manpower losses were still double the Germans. Plus the Soviet lost 3,000 tanks. 3,000! They only committed 4,000 to the operation. Germany had a few hundred tops deployed.

Germany had this odd ability to conscript captured troops into their own forces. The bulk of the troops guarding the Atlantic Wall were in the so-called "Ost Battalions" (East Battalions) formed from captured Soviet troops who were willing to work for the Wehrmacht. There is an anecdote from Ambrose's D-Day of a captured Korean soldiers who the Russians had captured first, impressed into service, then were in turn captured by the Germans and similarly impressed into service before being captured by the Americans.

Sad thing is the resource shortage could be interesting. Actually tracking it in detail would be quite dull, but there are some interesting strategic decisions involved. Classic one is Tungsten, Germany had decent pre-war stocks but couldn't really get any new supplies. So by 1943 the choice was; anti-tank rounds or machine tools? Or as the Germans chose try to do a bit of both, which hits industrial production and tank effectiveness.

As much as I don't necessarily care for HoI4 sometimes, their methodology for tracking such things does seem a nifty way to compromise. Unfortunately, their limitation is that it can only go in a top-down manner rather than having all of the production line resource need summed up and a check put on all the lines requiring the resource that needs it.

Things are about to get worse, if everything works out we should have a second update before Monday. Yes, we risk breaching the 1 week barrier....

 

[nuclearslurpee]

Germany had this odd ability to conscript captured troops into their own forces. The bulk of the troops guarding the Atlantic Wall were in the so-called "Ost Battalions" (East Battalions) formed from captured Soviet troops who were willing to work for the Wehrmacht. There is an anecdote from Ambrose's D-Day of a captured Korean soldiers who the Russians had captured first, impressed into service, then were in turn captured by the Germans and similarly impressed into service before being captured by the Americans.

This is absolutely fascinating information, especially the part about the thrice-captured Korean soldiers. It's truly amazing what we learn in slower-than-real time!

 

[El Pip]

True, but how would you then simulate how well the German high command were duped into thinking that the D Day landings were happening in Calais, to the point where they refused to reinforce the beaches at Normandy cebcause they knew it was a feint?

Paradox have thought of that - the AI regularly dupes itself just in case.

The whole bookmark is a little disingenuous though since by 1944 the Axis are screwed and everyone knows it, so the only thing of interest is how badly the Pacific war goes, and who takes the most land in Europe before the Cold War starts.

No the bookmark is disingenuous because the Allied invasion force starts with no ports and zero supply, the Transportation plan (the RAF and USAAF destroying the German rail network) hasn't happened and all the German divisions are at full strength, full org and latest equipment.

Paradox have created a scenario where it is harder to win as the Allies than as the Germans.

Germany had this odd ability to conscript captured troops into their own forces. The bulk of the troops guarding the Atlantic Wall were in the so-called "Ost Battalions" (East Battalions) formed from captured Soviet troops who were willing to work for the Wehrmacht. There is an anecdote from Ambrose's D-Day of a captured Korean soldiers who the Russians had captured first, impressed into service, then were in turn captured by the Germans and similarly impressed into service before being captured by the Americans.

Now that is a fascinating story, excellent work reporting it.

It does remind me of the SS Charlemagne Division, the French volunteers of that unit were among the last defenders of Berlin. Hence the phrase "French soldiers put more effort into defending Berlin than Paris." (This may not, in fact, be an actual well used phrase ).

As much as I don't necessarily care for HoI4 sometimes, their methodology for tracking such things does seem a nifty way to compromise. Unfortunately, their limitation is that it can only go in a top-down manner rather than having all of the production line resource need summed up and a check put on all the lines requiring the resource that needs it.

Paradox - badly implementing good ideas since 1999.

This is absolutely fascinating information, especially the part about the thrice-captured Korean soldiers. It's truly amazing what we learn in slower-than-real time!

Exactly. If I rushed out updates everyone would talk about them, by spacing them out we have time to talk about this sort of interesting stuff. It has all been carefully considered.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

No the bookmark is disingenuous because the Allied invasion force starts with no ports and zero supply, the Transportation plan (the RAF and USAAF destroying the German rail network) hasn't happened and all the German divisions are at full strength, full org and latest equipment.

Ok...so it should be disingenuous, but is actually bullshit?

Now that is a fascinating story, excellent work reporting it.

Saving Private Ryan actually includes this. The two german soldiers that surrendered at normandy and were shot as they pleaded for their lives were speaking Czech, and saying they weren't German, they didn't kill anyone, don't shoot.

 

[Andre Massena]

Can't wait for a British dominated Europe

 

[El Pip]

Ok...so it should be disingenuous, but is actually bullshit?

If you were being generous you would say it was just badly (as in not at all) play tested and was never updated for the all patches and DLCs.

Can't wait for a British dominated Europe

It's the best kind.

And on that cheerful note, back to the war!

 

[El Pip]

5th January 1945

We return, but not to Bratislva. Instead we are in the legendary capital of French sock making, we are of course in Romilly. Here we find General Jurech and Colonel Lendvay masterminding the Slovak war effort in the West. They should probably go and look in the Sock Museum while they are there, it won't help the Axis win the war but then neither will the efforts of the Slovakian Army.

"The Germans have summoned us to a meeting in the Château. They want to discuss plans to fend of the Allied attack." Jurech said as they ambled towards said Château.

"We are the heroes of Paris, world record holders in defending it! Aren't you supposed to be senior commander here?" Lendvay indignantly replied.

"I am, but do you think the Germans will accept that?" Jurech shrugged.

In hat-terms this is surprisingly equal, both Barker and Jurech showing fine jaunty cap skills. In theory the Panzer-Lehr division provides a significant edge to the defence. In theory.​

"Jurech! This briefing started at 6am! It's nearly lunch time, why are you so late?" Colonel von Hauser, the chief of staff of the Panzer-Lehr division, shouted.

"We thought you would still be halfway through pronouncing his name." Jurech pointed at the commander of Panzer-Lehr division.

Everyone looked at Generalmajor Hyacinth Graf Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche und Camminetz, Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds, Eastern Front Medal, Wound Badge (Black, Silver and Gold), Panzer Badge (Silver and Gold, Embossed 100), Romanian Order of the Crown, Silesian Eagle 1st Class with Oak Leaves and Swords, Iron Cross (1st Class), Clasp to the Iron Cross (1st Class), Deutsches Reichssportabzeichen and Junior Milk Monitor at Oppeln Volksschule (Spring Term 1899).

"Actually we are 75% through the incantation." von Hauser glared.

"Is it possible we could skip that and discuss the battle?" Lendvay asked.

Several of the German staff officers swooned at this shocking breach of protocol. However General Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche nodded and gestured for the briefing to begin.

"While we are only being attacked by a single British division, it is one of their better units - the 49th Division under General Barker."

"The so called 'Barker's Bears'?" Jurech asked.

"Indeed. They are a hard fighting unit, German Intelligence believes it will not be long before people name a type of roundabout after them."

"There is no higher honour." Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche said meditatively.

"What's a roundabout?" Lendvay whispered to Jurech. Jurech shook his head and shrugged.

This vital discussion was interrupted by a messenger who charged in and handed a note to Colonel von Hauser.

"I have urgent news from the front. The British have reinforced their attack, the Guards Armoured Division and the US 9th Mechanized have joined the assault." Von Hauser announced.

"This changes everything! Summon the staff we must work out a new plan." Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche instructed.

Jurech raised his hand.

"Does it involve the Slovak division staying in place and dying quietly while you take the Panzers to try and cut the enemy supply lines?" He asked.

Strachwitz von Groß-Zauche paused while walking out of the room.

"I wasn't aware you had been to German tactical training school." He said with new found respect.


6th January 1945

Jurech and Lendvay are alone in the Château.

"So how did the German plan go Lendvay?" Jurech asked.

"Mixed." Lendvay replied. "In fairness the German panzer attack did distract two of the Allied divisions, which did relief the pressure."

"But?"

"This left a gap for the Allies to commit another division, so we are now out-numbered 2:1." Lendvay gestured at the map.

Long time readers may remember the 29th Division as being commanded by General Gerhardt, the worst US general in the war, so things are not quite as bad as they seem. But they are still very bad.​

"So we are facing two motorised divisions, led by one of the most fierce British generals and we no longer have any tank support?" Jurech asked.

Lendvay nodded sadly.

"Bugger." Jurech summarised their position.

--
Notes:
The 49th West Ridings Division spent the start of the war in Norway, while this didn't go well it did get them tagged for similar arctic missions, hence why they were the occupying force for Iceland. This got them a new divisional badge with a polar bear on it. General E H "Bubbles" Barker (actual nickname) was appointed their new commander as they trained up for Overlord. To sum up Barker he thought the polar bear on the 49ths badge wasn't fighty enough and looked too much like the Fox's Glacier Mint bear, so changed it to an angry roaring polar bear. He was that sort of chap.

The 49th became know as Barker's Bears and were exceptionally tough, fought of attacks by multiple SS Panzer Divisions on a few occasions, that sort of thing. They liberated Utrecht and the grateful Dutch named a type of roundabout, the Berenkuil (Bear Pit), after the division. I am not making this up.

General Gerhardt remains an utter liability, far more dangerous to his own side than the enemy.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Instead we are in the legendary capital of French sock making, we are of course in Romilly.

Of course!

I am always in favour of more bears.

 

[Andre Massena]

Bears? I wasn't aware this was a CK2 AAR.

 

[Wraith11B]

I didn't realize that this was a HoI4 Achievement run...

 

[El Pip]

Of course!

I am always in favour of more bears.

In moderation. An excess of bears can be as bad as shortage. Worse even.

Bears? I wasn't aware this was a CK2 AAR.

If I just reposted this with every reference to tank replaced by heavy cavalry and bomber as archer, I reckon this could pass of a CK2 AAR. Slovakia is plausibly early medieval.

I didn't realize that this was a HoI4 Achievement run...

As I've said, the greatest achievement possible in a Paradox game is building anything useful while playing as Slovakia in the 1944 scenario. Nothing else is in game is as difficult while still being (just) technically possible.

 

[Surt]

So which of the 2 Slovak divisions will reach Bratislava first?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

If I just reposted this with every reference to tank replaced by heavy cavalry and bomber as archer, I reckon this could pass of a CK2 AAR. Slovakia is plausibly early medieval.

Well since the plot revolves around UK, Germany, Russia and US...this would be a very strange CKII game. Especially as for some reason all of them are in the Frankish empire, which for some reason doesn't exist/is split into bits by some crazy person. And they seem to be the great powers of the world, which is silly because of course the only 'western' power is the Roman Empire, a few giant Muslim empires, and china. It would be quite Pythonesque to have the ending be the Allies reaching Berlin only to be ganked by mongols though.

Mind you, give Paradox another five years of CKII dlc. It may well be possible to have a game where there is in fact a North America on the map, although it would be fairly impossible for anyone to get to except maybe some really unlucky Vikings, and the Chinese. As if China needed to be boosted even more in a paradox game...

 

[Rifal]

So how is that Slovakian "tank and spy" research going?

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

So how is that Slovakian "tank and spy" research going?

We know how to 'crouch' now. Soon we will develope 'jump'. Both useful for sneaking.

As for tanks, we have learnt how to spell them. And have learnt the name comes from a joke about water tanks. This has set back our research by quite a bit, as we now need to figure out a national water table before we can continue.

This is quite hard, but will get easier as the country is overrun.

 

[Surt]

Maybe we forgot to tell our spy the French sometimes call tanks "char d'assut", which in Slovak would be something like "attack chariot".