Industry says "Not enough buyers for products", commerce says "Not enough goods to sell"

[Artess]

As I mentioned, there is indeed a problem with imports and exports. I have approximately 3k imports and 8k exports. The problem is that the share of GOODS in both of them is almost zero, you can barely see the purple part of the diagram. I know well enough how industry works, how the production chain is organised; and my transport connections are good. The problem appeared suddenly, as I was expanding the city past 200k. Both industry (goods) and commercial just started complaining, and it won't go away. Specialised industry appears completely unaffected. Meanwhile, about half of my commercial and generic industry buildings got abandoned, and I went from 98% employment rate to about 64%. I am also most definitely certain that traffic and outside connections are not a problem whatsoever. I've played enough city simulators, and I have enough failed towns in Skylines to understand how it all works.

 

[cRAGGLE]

Too many highly educated workers perhaps?

 

[Artess]

Too many highly educated workers perhaps?

Well, over 90% of them, but then the industry would be complaining about not having enough workers, right? Instead, the workers are not a problem, it's just that "not enough buyers for products". And, anyway, tier 3 industry requires enough highly educated workers to handle it.

 

[cRAGGLE]

Well, over 90% of them, but then the industry would be complaining about not having enough workers, right? Instead, the workers are not a problem, it's just that "not enough buyers for products". And, anyway, tier 3 industry requires enough highly educated workers to handle it.

Could not enough buyers mean you need more population to buy the goods.. or maybe better access to the goods? I've had that problem before and once my population went up it seemed to go away. Could be a balance problem though you never know.

 

[KeanoManu]

If that's the case, then there's definitely a bug with the demand since it's usually no demand for residential when those icons appear.

 

[rkelly17]

If that's the case, then there's definitely a bug with the demand since it's usually no demand for residential when those icons appear.

I think that is true anyway. I have industry and commerce crying out for workers (of any kind) and very low unemployment with absolutely no demand showing for residential (therefore people not moving in) and high demand for commercial. Not sure how that works.

 

[redbruiser]

So, basically, I have the problem as described in the title. My city was growing well, I got to 200k population, I have all five ultimate buildings. When suddenly I notice that both my industrial and commercial zones are having problems. Industry complains that nobody buys the products, commerce says there's not enough of them. This only affects the regular industry; forestry and agriculture seem fine. The problem appeared out of the blue and it's been happening for over two in-game years already. Both industry and commercial buildings are getting abandoned and do not rebuild, I've lost about a quarter of each already. A quick look at the outside connections shows that the share of "goods" in both export and imports is almost invisible. Traffic is not a problem, and I even have cargo train terminals in both areas. Any ideas why this might be happening and how to remedy the problem? I don't want to abandon my city, I've already laid out huge road networks over the entire map, and I really want to fill them now =)

Read through the entries after experiencing the same problem and there is definitely an issue. Looking at the City Statistics, looks like a swarm of new migrants come in after the die off which then collapses. For me, the cycle continues evident in the Happiness fluxtuating from over -1000 to +1000. Indeed industry never meets Commercial needs - insufficient buyers and insufficient producers at the same time, the biggest migrant into the city is just after when happiness is at its lowest - go figure. I do have 'unlimited' power and education and no pollution due to having the right monuments so we can remove these factors. Traffic is minimal. I've tried maximizing budget of trains and ports to see impact on imports and no change their. Seems to me the problem is a problem with Imports not reacting swiftly enough to the cycle of changes. This might not be a 'bug' in the program but a timing / loop issue. Improving the response rate of imports so it provides more goods to populations over 200K would do the trick.

 

[MarkJohnson]

Please start a new thread of your own instead of reviving an almost 2 year old thread.

 

[State Machine]

By coincidence, I am having the same problem and went on the forum earlier today to see if there is any help...

My context:

1) The problem probably started with city size ~78K. I'm not sure since I spent a few sessions working on a road traffic problem. Once I resolved it I noticed that my city had gone to hell.
2) By coincidence, I had a really bad industrial rail problem with trains backed up as many as 15 trains to the cargo transfer in my main industrial area. I reasoned that this was the problem. After a few fixes and refinements, I fixed the rail problem, but still, the "industry doesn't have any buyers, and commercial can't buy anything" continued.
3) After fixing my rail problem, nothing of any note. No traffic problems, no worker shortages, etc.

Some observations/analysis:

1) Probably 67+% of my industry was specialized with ore.
2) I seemed to have mined out all the ore where the industry district was, and the depletion of resources occurred while I was obsessed with my road traffic problem.
3) Virtually all of the commercial buildings that could not buy goods were not importers, so an import/transport problem seemed totally unlikely (99%+ non importers). Supported by observation that the cargo system was not overwhelmed by volume of traffic.
4) I assume the 64K agent limit is not a problem.

Some further observations/analysis:

1) Ore is a red herring since it never had anything (or not much) to do with commercial demand for agra, wood, or generic "goods". BTW, I've noticed that oil is used as an input for clothing industries - think polyester... The various steps I've taken to generalize industry (ie change industrial specialization from ore to no specialization) have not changed the proportion of ore import/export ratios. Regardless of the number of specialized ore industries I have, they take the same proportion of imports and exports, and never complain about anything.
2) My city has grown to 90K during this problem. Meanwhile, I've probably lost 25% of commercial zoned areas, and 50% of industrial zoned areas. The RCI demand has been, basically, zero throughout. The time period of this is, roughly, 4-5 day/night sequences (whatever that is in game-weeks).
3 A large amount of my industrial shrink is from un-specializing. Presumably all of my commercial shrink is from the commercial building being without goods for too long.
4) Industrial zones are very slowly spawning non-specialized industries producing delicacies like "fish sticks", and essentials like "boxes" and "goods unlimited".

So...

1) the OP situation is different since he is not overly specialized in industry and and has a very larger population that I do. The number of agents may be an issue.
2) gamers that "just" add industry re-enforce the notion that there is a general lack of non-specialized stuff (which is not imported for some reason).\
3) I do not understand where education is an issue. Neither the OP or anyone else has mentioned a lack of workers.

Cheers,

State

 

[MarkJohnson]

@State Machine

This is a 2-year old thread. I'm sure the OP has either moved on or solved his issues.

If you need advice on your city, I suggest your start a new thread of your own.

 

[jcitron]

@State Machine

This is a 2-year old thread. I'm sure the OP has either moved on or solved his issues.

If you need advice on your city, I suggest your start a new thread of your own.

Even though I do agree with you that this is a 2-year old thread, this issue is still pertinent today as it was 2 years ago.

Anyway.... I would be nice if the industries and commerce stated 1) what raw materials and goods they need. Saying something is broken but not giving details doesn't assist us in solving the problem.

 

[MarkJohnson]

Even though I do agree with you that this is a 2-year old thread, this issue is still pertinent today as it was 2 years ago.

It may not be pertinent in a few ways.

1) This is a two year old thread with two years of updates the rules have changed.

2) Just because a person has the same symptom doesn't mean he has the same problem.

3) Even if they do have the same problem they may have a different solution and this will confuse the OP or other people with the same issue as the poster and get wrong information and possible make things worse.

4) It's just plain disrespectful to hijack another person's thread. You may end up helping, but a greater chance to make things worse.

5) The hijacker would have had a much better chance of creating his own thread with more details in the topic and had a greater chance of getting the help he needed instead of being buried in an old thread that ended up being unrelated and not getting any help at all.

So State Machine would have had a much greater chance for is guide to be read then buried in a question thread! It was really a waste posting it here. The hijack worked in reverse this time. Instead of the hijack hurting the OP it hurt the hijacker.

Anyway.... I would be nice if the industries and commerce stated 1) what raw materials and goods they need. Saying something is broken but not giving details doesn't assist us in solving the problem.

I'm not sure what more you want.

The game tells you everything you need to know in the overlay maps (Info View).

Raw materials are specialized industry. The raw goods like oil, ore, food, forestry.

Goods are generic industry. The items goods (purple).

Goods is not a generic term, but an item produced in the game.

I'm not sure what else you want the game to tell you. I mean it's a game. I wouldn't expect it to hold my hand and do everything for me. Maybe if you were more specific in your needs than repeating what's already been said.

As to the specific items, it is irrelevant. If you have a shortage of raw materials, it means just that, all raw materials. It means it can't get them through creation or importing.

Here's the supply chain pic and explanation on the wiki.
http://www.skylineswiki.com/Supply_chain

 

[MarkJohnson]

Some observations/analysis:

1) Probably 67+% of my industry was specialized with ore.

This is way too much. You should have about one fouth of what your generic industry has. Otherwise the rest goes exported and creates needless traffic.

2) I seemed to have mined out all the ore where the industry district was, and the depletion of resources occurred while I was obsessed with my road traffic problem.

Not you have doubles your traffic as now you have to import raw oil and then create refined oil and export it. so it can get out of hand quick.

3) Virtually all of the commercial buildings that could not buy goods were not importers, so an import/transport problem seemed totally unlikely (99%+ non importers). Supported by observation that the cargo system was not overwhelmed by volume of traffic.

Your outside connection overlay map (info view) will tell you which buildings are importing and exporting and the type. Plus they don't buy goods (purple), they are provided to them(free). deliveries are short. If they don't make it on time then they despawn. It's less about volume than it is distance.

4) I assume the 64K agent limit is not a problem.

It is likel;y the 16k vehicle limit that is your issue. It won't spawn the needed vehicles if it is reazched until other vehicles despawn from delivery or timed out and despawned.

Some further observations/analysis:

1) Ore is a red herring since it never had anything (or not much) to do with commercial demand for agra, wood, or generic "goods". BTW, I've noticed that oil is used as an input for clothing industries - think polyester... The various steps I've taken to generalize industry (ie change industrial specialization from ore to no specialization) have not changed the proportion of ore import/export ratios. Regardless of the number of specialized ore industries I have, they take the same proportion of imports and exports, and never complain about anything.

Commerce doesn't demand oil, ore, farming, forestry. They all go to generic industry to create a good called "Goods" (purple) that gets delivered to commerce.

Don't convert specialized to generic. Just dezone specialized that is too big. Build them together so they get deliveries on time.

2) My city has grown to 90K during this problem. Meanwhile, I've probably lost 25% of commercial zoned areas, and 50% of industrial zoned areas. The RCI demand has been, basically, zero throughout. The time period of this is, roughly, 4-5 day/night sequences (whatever that is in game-weeks).

Don't focus on RCI too much. There is no read demand in those bars. They are more of a recommendation then dem,and. On;y build commerce and industry for cosmetics. Neither are needed by the game at all. All that is needed is residential and offices, so you can have jobs and workers.

3 A large amount of my industrial shrink is from un-specializing. Presumably all of my commercial shrink is from the commercial building being without goods for too long.

Commerce will grow back when the demand is filled.

4) Industrial zones are very slowly spawning non-specialized industries producing delicacies like "fish sticks", and essentials like "boxes" and "goods unlimited".

Commerce should do the same as demands are met.

So...

1) the OP situation is different since he is not overly specialized in industry and and has a very larger population that I do. The number of agents may be an issue.

This is common to larger cities. But can also happen to smaller cities that focus on large, segregated farming communities.

2) gamers that "just" add industry re-enforce the notion that there is a general lack of non-specialized stuff (which is not imported for some reason).

It is indeed imported. It is just out of balance and can't make deliveries on time and despawns, if it spawens in the first place.

3) I do not understand where education is an issue. Neither the OP or anyone else has mentioned a lack of workers.

Education in very important. It should be the highest priority than anything else. If you do get a lack of educated workers, it is because commerce has went to level two, but your education is still at level 1.

If you have a lack of workers period, then your unemployment has dropped below 5%. Just zone more residential and jobs will be filled.

Cheers,

State

Let me know if any of this doesn't make sense and I'll try to explain it better. It's past my bedtime and lack of sleeps makes me confused easily.

last note I forgot to mention:

This is an agent based simulator. which means agents (cims) need to get from point A to point B in a TIMELY manner or bad things happen.

 

[jcitron]

Thank you, Mark for your detailed explanation. This makes sense and I have made some of these changes you mention here to my cities with great success including reducing the amount of specialized industries through my own experimentation.

I have also had better luck placing small pockets of industry around my city rather than concentrating it all on one side, which was something of a carryover from the old SimCity days. This helps the distribution points so that there is less of a commute time for workers, and less of a distance that the delivery trucks need to travel. Using this plus various rail cargo yards around the map, I've been able to grow my industry quite well.

My only complaint though is the generic message, which I mentioned before. When an industry says not enough raw materials, I would like to know what raw materials the industry lacks. Franks Fish Sticks, for example, needs what goods? Or how about the Fine Fashions? I see petroleum trucks and wood trucks going to these industries. If they could tell me they need more wood, I could increase the wood products specialty industry and ensure there is better delivery routes for those products. The same of course with petroleum. But alas, without that specific information and only a generic message, it's of no help and I feel left out in the dark on this.

 

[MarkJohnson]

My only complaint though is the generic message, which I mentioned before. When an industry says not enough raw materials, I would like to know what raw materials the industry lacks. Franks Fish Sticks, for example, needs what goods? Or how about the Fine Fashions? I see petroleum trucks and wood trucks going to these industries. If they could tell me they need more wood, I could increase the wood products specialty industry and ensure there is better delivery routes for those products. The same of course with petroleum. But alas, without that specific information and only a generic message, it's of no help and I feel left out in the dark on this.

I understand your concern, but this game is extremely simplistic. It doesn't really care what raw material it is specifically. In other words, raw materials just means specialized industry. If you want to know specifically it will show up in your outside connections overlay map (info view) and it will show you which specific specialized good is being used, i.e. ore, coal, forestry, or farming. There is no fish sticks in game, or any other specific item. Even ore, oil, forestry, and farming is exactly the same for specialized as generic.
On top of that, specialized industry has two parts to it. for example: Forestry has trees it harvests, then delivers these trees to lumber mills to make lumber. then the lumber gets delivered to generic industry to make the item "Goods" that gets delivered to commerce. But the game treats trees the same as lumber and there is no difference in game.

If you want to see what items you need to create more of, then go to the imports tab and see who is importing trees and provide more trees.

Warning specialized industry is flakey and produces lots of traffic. Your specialized forestry will import both trees and lumber to your district, plus export them at the same time, while delivering lumber to the generic industry to make goods. I've tried balancing this out and it's very hard as it always seems to import.export a small amount. I think it is still better than no specialization at all and relying on importing of specialized industry to generic industry.

Here's the Cities Skylines wiki on the supply chain. there is a nice graph at the top of the article showing the supply chain.
http://www.skylineswiki.com/Supply_chain

But ultimately it is down to agents (trucks) need to get from point A to point B in a timely manner. Even if you are short, the import/export should automatically pick up the slack. So you get those messages from deliveries trucks being delayed or are just too far away to reach. Delivery trucks won't travel far.

Aldo, I think maybe the game will use local trucks first and then import. so if your local trucks keep failing, then you mazy get those messages as well and you just need RCI closer together.

My one test I made on a single tile during after dark released, showed that deliveries were only traveling about 1km before commerce would start importing.

 

[Fox_NS_CAN]

There is no fish sticks in game, or any other specific item.

Some people have suggested fishing as an industry. I recall Homer Simpson watching some fish swimming around and saying "Mmmmm... Unprocessed fish sticks!"

Even the ICE CUBE FACTORY imports ORE. (In a truck that does not look like an "ore truck".)

 

[jcitron]

Yes, exactly!

I know they're trying to simulate commerce and industry, which is fine by me but shouldn't they get the proper vehicles to handle the right kind of commodities.

A fishing industry would be a good one though. Maybe CO is holding on to that one for a future DLC pack.

 

[State Machine]

I think a major point MarkJohnson makes is to not even remotely (overly) specialize in any of the ore/oil/forestery/farm districts...

 

[MarkJohnson]

I think a major point MarkJohnson makes is to not even remotely (overly) specialize in any of the ore/oil/forestery/farm districts...

Actually, I tried removing my specialized industry from my whole city in one fell swoop and things got much worse.

Specialized is flakey at best, but still better than without it.

 

[jcitron]

Actually, I tried removing my specialized industry from my whole city in one fell swoop and things got much worse.

Specialized is flakey at best, but still better than without it.

I found out the hard way as well with one of my cities. Instead I've been shrinking down the specialized areas and moving in general goods and offices with good results. Remember with offices, you need an educated population otherwise you'll get not enough works icons.