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Tsar Shamshir

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First of all, thanks for the reply!

Industries- makes sense, but that is my problem. I can't build the ones I want. I see that demand is up for clothes, but can't force them to build them. With Bureaucrats set to 100% will that happen more naturally? The other parts of #1 I'll take to heart and apply it next game.

That takes me to my next question, when bureaucrats are 100% (not sure what that means, though- the slider bar is full?) do you mean, change the Nat'l Focus to capitalists, or ignore the NF and change the State/Province Focus for the highest 2 POP provinces? At what point do you go to the next highest provinces, if that's the case?

Subsidies- duly noted! I subsidized like a madman in the Midwest and South East to get factories going (of course they weren't the ones I wanted). I will do what you said and keep poor/middle class taxes low next time- I did kind of the opposite as an impetus to get my desired factories (again, fruitless).

#4 will take some more thinking based on what I want to accomplish. My war aims as America are two-fold every time: Completely absorb Mexico and minimize Southern preparedness army-wise (I mostly produce units in the historic Northern states). Southern Pride is a pet peeve of mine......... One day I would LOVE to absorb Canada, too. Back to my point. During the games, I saw the huge profit potential in arms and artillery on the world market and tried to take advantage. I take it the game engine doesn't really allow one country to dominate the Arms Market.

Again, thank you very much!
 

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First of all, thanks for the reply!

Industries- makes sense, but that is my problem. I can't build the ones I want. I see that demand is up for clothes, but can't force them to build them. With Bureaucrats set to 100% will that happen more naturally? The other parts of #1 I'll take to heart and apply it next game.

That takes me to my next question, when bureaucrats are 100% (not sure what that means, though- the slider bar is full?) do you mean, change the Nat'l Focus to capitalists, or ignore the NF and change the State/Province Focus for the highest 2 POP provinces? At what point do you go to the next highest provinces, if that's the case?

Subsidies- duly noted! I subsidized like a madman in the Midwest and South East to get factories going (of course they weren't the ones I wanted). I will do what you said and keep poor/middle class taxes low next time- I did kind of the opposite as an impetus to get my desired factories (again, fruitless).

#4 will take some more thinking based on what I want to accomplish. My war aims as America are two-fold every time: Completely absorb Mexico and minimize Southern preparedness army-wise (I mostly produce units in the historic Northern states). Southern Pride is a pet peeve of mine......... One day I would LOVE to absorb Canada, too. Back to my point. During the games, I saw the huge profit potential in arms and artillery on the world market and tried to take advantage. I take it the game engine doesn't really allow one country to dominate the Arms Market.

Again, thank you very much!

What I wrote applies if you are playing Victoria 2 with A House Divided expansion pack and patched to the latest patch 2.31. If you don't have the AHD expansion with the 2.31 patch, then things would be slightly different and not all the points I made will apply.

1) It's useful if you can appoint a party with state capitalism as economic policy into power for the first few years so that you can build some initial industries yourself then switch back to conservatives or liberals, but I think it's not possible to do that as USA because USA does not have a party with State Capitalism at the beginning, but I am not sure, so check if you can. Unfortunately, capitalists tend to build factories randomly and therefore often build the wrong factories in the wrong states, but at the very beginning you should still tax the few capitalists you have less than 10% for a while so that they build more industry even if many of them will be a complete waste. Tax capitalists over 30% once you have built up a decent industry and you have more capitalists.
Having 100% bureaucrat coverage should be your first priority, then ensure that most states have at least some capitalists, take care of the most populated states first of course.

2) With National Focus, you should initially make it a priority to get administration to 100% and have 100% bureaucrats in most important states. Click on the bureaucracy view mode tab, it will show which parts of your country lack bureaucrats, if you click on a province you can see on top right the percentage of bureaucrats it has, try to get it to 100% in all important provinces. States with low bureaucrats percentage will not be efficiently administered and thus pay less taxes as well as prospering more slowly, so having 100% bureaucrats is crucial in states you want to have many factories. Bureaucrats also make sure that enough craftsmen are trained to work in newly built factories.
Secondly, if you click on your budget screen, on the right above the administration slider you can see the percentage of bureaucrat national coverage. At the 1836 start this is usually below 50%, you need to get it up to 100% to maximize you tax efficiency and other things, that will not take very long to achieve. Note that just because your administration coverage in the budget screen shows 100%, it does not mean that all your states are covered well, so go to the map and check again, you will find that some states will still be red or yellow. You can ignore a few backwater states at first, and in newly conquered areas from Mexico you will not be able to get bureaucrats fast enough for a while as few people of your national culture live there and getting 100% bureaucrats there will take very long time, so wait a few years until more of your people settle in newly conquered Mexican lands. Though I think if you have a party in power that supports full citizenship then you can promote Mexicans to become bureaucrats in territories you conquer from Mexico. Same for colonies, wait for some of your people to settle them, then promote bureaucrats and then convert the colony into a proper state. Ideally, you should aim to eventually have all your states having 100% bureaucrats.
First use NF to get bureaucrats, then get some capitalists. Start with 2 most populated states, then switch around sometimes to make some capitalists in other states too. You should at least some capitalists in most of your states, with most populated states having 0.50% to 1% of capitalists as most of your industry will be there and capitalists will optimize it. Capitalists breed and increase in number on their own too, so for the start get each state to have 0.30% or 0.40% of them and then switch the NF to another one, states with low population and few factories can do with 0.10% of them. Places you conquer from Mexico or Alaska, leave them last as these will not be very productive at first anyway.
Also don't forget to promote clerks occasionally, they are vital to your industries too.

3) As for subsidies, do it only in rare circumstances, for example you might have to raise tariffs at the beginning for extra cash, then subsidize all factories that rely on imported goods to prevent them from going bankrupt because of the tariffs you had to introduce. Remove subsidies a few weeks after you have abolished import tariffs. Even though subsidizing costs very little at the beginning, you are preventing the most successful industries from growing by subsidizing unprofitable ones. So don't over do it and use it selectively, if you decide to subsidize a fabric factory temporarily for some reason, you should subsidize the other fabric factories in other states too or they might be driven bankrupt by the ones you are subsidizing. Also don't forget to destroy bankrupt and close factories when there is no more room for new ones to be built in a state concerned.
As for taxes, in the beginning you will not have much tax income from capitalists and you might have to tax the poor over 70% for a while. So for the first few years cut capitalist taxes to 5%, or even 0% so that they can invest their money into building factories and railways. Use NF to promote more capitalists in the meantime. Once your initial industry is up and running and you have most of your capitalists being able to afford luxury goods, tax them up to 30% or 40% and that should hopefully give you enough income to tax poor and middle class people less than 10%. Middle and Rich class usually don't provide you much tax money at the start, so taxing them low makes sense when you have a shortage of clerks, need more clergymen to increase literacy and let capitalists invest into industry and infrastructure.
Personally I start with stockpile slider and military spending at 50% to save money and use it to have the Education and Administration sliders set to 100%. I tax the poor around 90%, middle at 40% to 50% and rich at 10%. Commercial techs for tax efficiency and administration help lower tax rates. Over time I steadily reduce poor and middle taxes to 20% then to 5%, while I raise rich taxes up to 30% or 40%. Sometimes I also impose import tariffs for extra cash at the beginning, in which case I subsidize the industries that rely on imported raw materials. In my last game as Germany by 1890 I taxed the poor and middle class only 3% while taxing rich around 25% and having a balanced budget with 400 army brigades, a decent navy and national stockpile slider always at 100% to support my very profitable military industry.

4) A military industrial complex is useful, but don't make it a top priority at the beginning. They will export a bit to the world market, but because of heavy competition it will not be able to export a lot. As USA you should bring all South American nations into your sphere of influence, except those you plan to fight wars against. Countries in your sphere of influence will buy all goods and weapons from you first before they go to the world market. But don't bring large countries like Brazil or Mexico too early into your sphere, they might have factories and artisans that can undercut your industry, so wait until your industry is well established, has become larger and more competitive then of those of nations you wish to bring into your sphere of influence. By bringing countries into your sphere you allow their industries to compete against yours directly, so never bring large well industrialized nations into your sphere, also don't sphere China or Japan. China has no industry at the start but it has so many people like artisans they can put half of your industry out of business or force you to subsidize your factories. Japan and China tend to become Great Powers towards the end anyway and thus leave your sphere of influence once they do.
P.S. Remember that you cannot declare war on countries that you have brought into your sphere of influence, and you cannot kick them out once you have them in your sphere, you will have to wait for another Great Power nation to take them out of your sphere first.
 
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Wow thank you once again for a full and concise answer. When would you say is a good time to reduce the taxes from the high start rate. Would that also be why my factories are doing badly? as I got the taxes for poor and middle classes at about 80%ish since day one....
 

delra

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USA can't switch parties easily because USA is a democracy. To make USA go state capitalism would require building up loyalty for one of radical or totalitarian parties to elect it for a few years, and then building up twice us much loyalty to vote them out of office and replace. It would take decades, and it would mean decades less of time spent on promoting Clerks (for example).

The plan for USA is fairly simple, 4x C: Crats, Clergy, Capitalists, Clerks. Make your administration efficient and "state" the whole eastern part of the country, then create a fairly big capitalist class able to constantly build factories and railroads, then maximize your research rate and industrial output for the rest of the game. And let them build and operate factories the way they desire. They will build dozens of them, and a lot of them will fail, but eventually they will learn to sustain their enterprise and start churning out massive profits.

With that plan in mind, you can start very early building up "yellow" party loyalty in crucial states, maybe even before you create crats, so each election furthers your liberal agenda securing yellow votes for the rest of the game. If you can't have control over which party is in power, you should make sure the best one is in power, and for immigration-addicted Americans that's full citizenship/free trade/laissez faire party more than for anyone else.

This applies to all other new world democracies, you want yellow for full citizenship as much as you want yellow for laissez-faire output bonus.
 

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Wow thank you once again for a full and concise answer. When would you say is a good time to reduce the taxes from the high start rate. Would that also be why my factories are doing badly? as I got the taxes for poor and middle classes at about 80%ish since day one....

It's normal that for the first 5 or 10 years you have to tax the poor 80%, tax rich 5% to encourage factories and railroads, have import tariffs and subsidize some factories. After you get all the bureaucrats you need, start promoting capitalists and some clerks too. Once you have at least 0.20% of capitalists in all your provinces that have factories (Try to eventually get 1% of capitalists in your most populated and most industrialized provinces) raise rich taxes to 30% or 40%, that should give enough income to eventually cut poor taxes to at least 15%. I am playing Japan now and by 1880 I had so many capitalists that poor and middle taxes are constantly at less than 10%, while the rich just pay 35% which is enough to balance my budget without any spending.
 
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Dron22

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USA can't switch parties easily because USA is a democracy. To make USA go state capitalism would require building up loyalty for one of radical or totalitarian parties to elect it for a few years, and then building up twice us much loyalty to vote them out of office and replace. It would take decades, and it would mean decades less of time spent on promoting Clerks (for example).

The plan for USA is fairly simple, 4x C: Crats, Clergy, Capitalists, Clerks. Make your administration efficient and "state" the whole eastern part of the country, then create a fairly big capitalist class able to constantly build factories and railroads, then maximize your research rate and industrial output for the rest of the game. And let them build and operate factories the way they desire. They will build dozens of them, and a lot of them will fail, but eventually they will learn to sustain their enterprise and start churning out massive profits.

With that plan in mind, you can start very early building up "yellow" party loyalty in crucial states, maybe even before you create crats, so each election furthers your liberal agenda securing yellow votes for the rest of the game. If you can't have control over which party is in power, you should make sure the best one is in power, and for immigration-addicted Americans that's full citizenship/free trade/laissez faire party more than for anyone else.

This applies to all other new world democracies, you want yellow for full citizenship as much as you want yellow for laissez-faire output bonus.

With USA Laissez faire tends to work well, however I still like state capitalism early on to make sure I have all the factories I need and don't import any goods which I can produce domestically. I change to laissez faire only when the industry is well established and too large for me to constantly managing. Capitalists still build factories under state capitalism, and early on I think it's useful to be able to prevent them from building unwanted factories filling the last slot. I don't keep state capitalists parties in power for too long because they don't allow capitalists to expand successful factories.
 

delra

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You cannot just "change" when you are a democracy.
 

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You cannot just "change" when you are a democracy.

I know, that's why HM government can come in handy, though unfortunately it's not an option as USA. Laissez faire is not always the best option for some countries at certain times. I like laissez faire too, makes you able to focus on other things and not worry about industry constantly. I just wish there was genuine laissez faire in real life too, which is rare these days.
 

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Well I have to give an update of my game so far as a LOT has changed and it's SOLELY down to the help on this page so I must say thank you. Since changing my tax sliders my industry took off faster than Apollo 11 on LSD! :rofl: Made stupid amounts of money and switched to army as that was backwards in a horrific way. Burned through getting my army up to speed and conquered a chunk of Middle-Africa which ended up having some coal which helped.

Think to be honest I'm not going too make being a GP as its 1905-ish now - I'm flitting between 12 and 10. The top-8 are quite a ways in front and have sphered most of the decent countries and France/Spain have painted Africa their colours for the most part.

In conclusion, thank you for all your help - any further tips or advice you think could help me please say. May try Brazil again or another country, maybe a GP but I sort of like earning that GP status not just being "born" into it. :) OH one thing, I seem to be unable to build more ships than what I have, would this be due to the fact my Captitalists are upgrading the railways/building more factories? And also how am I able to A) Build more ships and B) Raise my threshold on Soldiers as I can raise a maximum of 41 brigades I think despite having another 20 in the build queue.

Sorry for the novel - just really pleased with how things have opened up and how in love with this game I've found myself...:wub:
 
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If you move the mouse over the queued up units on your military screen it will tell you how far along you are with purchasing whatever it is they need. Assuming you have everything on the trade screen set to default, and have sufficient spending on national stockpile, there is probably some resource that is in such short supply globally that there is none left after the GPs take their fill. To which the solution is I guess to make more of whatever it is yourself. If there is a major war going on then it could be a temporary boost in demand due to increased military spending by the participants.
 

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True, some military units will not start building if you lack the goods for it in your national stockpile. In my recent Japan game, by around 1910 there was a severe shortage of timber and fish. My pops could not get some of their life needs due to lack of fish, and I had to subsidize my furniture industry to prevent it from collapsing, as their production came to a halt that, I waited for the supply of timber to catch up with world demand, it gradually improved but there was still not enough timber around by 1935. I think the prices of goods in short supply do not increase enough, as not all nations with the highest prestige would be able to afford them, while other nations with lower prestige might be willing to pay a high price for those goods.
 

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You could very well be right, as its guards I'm trying to get and maybethere isn't enough Luxury clothes in the world to buy them after the GPs...

Also, is there a cap on the amount of ships I can build - assuming availability of materials is no problem? Oh and sorry to be a pain but how to I increase the brigade cap? Just by NFinf soldiers in the most populous states?
 

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Oh and sorry to be a pain but how to I increase the brigade cap? Just by NFinf soldiers in the most populous states?

You also can increase the military spending slider on the budget screen. You also want to have actually recruited at least 60% of your brigade cap into actual brigades.
 

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You could very well be right, as its guards I'm trying to get and maybethere isn't enough Luxury clothes in the world to buy them after the GPs...

Also, is there a cap on the amount of ships I can build - assuming availability of materials is no problem? Oh and sorry to be a pain but how to I increase the brigade cap? Just by NFinf soldiers in the most populous states?

It can also be because you are building other brigades or ships in the que of the same province, a province can only build one brigade or ship at a time.
You can check in the trade screen and see which goods are in shortage on the world market, you might want to stockpile some goods to have a reserve. If you leave it on automatic your stockpile will only buy minimum required daily amount of each good.
As far as I know, there is no limit of how many ships you can have, however they require a lot of goods for maintenance such as clipper or steamer. Although having a large navy is good for military score and good for your clipper or steamer factories, it costs a lot so don't build a huge navy early in the game when you can spend that money to cut taxes.
 

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It can also be because you are building other brigades or ships in the que of the same province, a province can only build one brigade or ship at a time.
You can check in the trade screen and see which goods are in shortage on the world market, you might want to stockpile some goods to have a reserve. If you leave it on automatic your stockpile will only buy minimum required daily amount of each good.
As far as I know, there is no limit of how many ships you can have, however they require a lot of goods for maintenance such as clipper or steamer. Although having a large navy is good for military score and good for your clipper or steamer factories, it costs a lot so don't build a huge navy early in the game when you can spend that money to cut taxes.

That would explain a lot, just finished my game and without me noticing two of the top-8 at the end were JOHORE and KOREA - I kid you not. How was that possible? Bloody great navies! Korea had something like 320 Dreadnought/Cruisers while Johore had about 100. How they achieved that I'll never know but restarting as them and decommisioning their ships made them sink like stones so now I know where I'm focusing next game! Thank you both Polar Mongoose and Dron22 for your advice through this first game. Really appreciate it. :)
 

Dron22

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That would explain a lot, just finished my game and without me noticing two of the top-8 at the end were JOHORE and KOREA - I kid you not. How was that possible? Bloody great navies! Korea had something like 320 Dreadnought/Cruisers while Johore had about 100. How they achieved that I'll never know but restarting as them and decommisioning their ships made them sink like stones so now I know where I'm focusing next game! Thank you both Polar Mongoose and Dron22 for your advice through this first game. Really appreciate it. :)

I seen that happen in AHD 2.31 too, load up as Korea and you will probably find that their disproportionaly huge navy is all they have that makes their score in the top 8, their industry is probably not so great as they probably had to tax their POPs at max to support such a navy. Usually Korea builds those ships but can never afford to support more than 10% of the national stockpile slider, so their navy is often useless when they are at war.
Building hundreds of dreadnoughts in late game is a known gamey exploit to raise your score, I think one dreadnought gives like a hundred military score points I think. I hope paradox actually does something about dreadnoughts soon, as no nation should be able to build so many of them without a huge cost. Historically, in the run up to World War I the British Empire had a budget crisis when decided they need to have 50 Dreadnoughts as it stretched their economy to the limit. If the UK struggled to build 50 Dreadnoughts, I think it's lame that Korea can build and support 100 of them, they should have trouble even having 1.
 

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Glad it wasn't just a bug in my game!! It is a disproprtionate bonus I must say, especially when compared to building other units land based mainly. I hope they fix that too as I really enjoyed my game and really don't want to be undermined by countries just banging out dreadnaughts last-minute. Like you I hope it gets fixed or other units get ramped up and enjoyed the historical comparison - bit of an amateur historian of the British Empire so any new facts always put a smile on my face!
 

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Glad it wasn't just a bug in my game!! It is a disproprtionate bonus I must say, especially when compared to building other units land based mainly. I hope they fix that too as I really enjoyed my game and really don't want to be undermined by countries just banging out dreadnaughts last-minute. Like you I hope it gets fixed or other units get ramped up and enjoyed the historical comparison - bit of an amateur historian of the British Empire so any new facts always put a smile on my face!

I think it's fair that Dreadnoughts give a big boost to your military score, but it should be made much more challenging to build even 10 in terms of cost than, they are way too cheap for what they should be. It gets really lame in late game, once as Germany I built 20 Dreadnoughts for role play and do as they did historically during the Dreadnought arms race with the British, then I had a war with France, who had a fleet of around 200 Dreadnoughts and I was not going to build 200 myself just to beat the French Navy even though I could easily do that. Historically the Dreadnoughts were a waste as they have never been useful in WW1 or WW2, the British and Germans built dozens of them at the beginning of 20th Centuary because it became a penis measuring contest of who has more Dreadnoughts, and it never occurred to any British or German admiral that these ships are almost useless. At least the British and Japanese had been able to convert some of their Dreadnoughts into aircraft carriers by the time of WW2, so it was not a total waste that way. I think this is why no one ever builds any Battleships anymore, the US Navy reactivated in 1980's the the Iowa battleship built in 1942 and just recently decommissioned it again. Other than that the Russian Navy uses 4 Kirov class Battlecruisers built in 1980s, which I think are the largest warships in use today and come close to the size and tonnage of a WW1 Dreadnought.
 

unmerged(184583)

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Indeed, though the Japanese still had a ton of battleships, probably more than anybody except UK at the onset of ww2. If you haven't heard of the battle of Samar aka "Taffy 3 vs the Japanese Center Force", then you should look it up. It is among the biggest naval battles in the history of the world. Basically 6 escort carriers and their companion fleet ruined all of Japans plans for pacific domination, partly because they leaned so heavily on big guns and battleships that were easily outmaneuvered by the Americans.

Another interesting off topic fact, the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi were the two biggest ever made still to date.
 
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Dron22

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Indeed, though the Japanese still had a ton of battleships, probably more than anybody except UK at the onset of ww2. If you haven't heard of the battle of Samar aka "Taffy 3 vs the Japanese Center Force", then you should look it up. It is among the biggest naval battles in the history of the world. Basically 6 escort carriers and their companion fleet ruined all of Japans plans for pacific domination, partly because they leaned so heavily on big guns and battleships that were easily outmaneuvered by the Americans.

Another interesting off topic fact, the Japanese battleships Yamato and Musashi were the two biggest ever made still to date.

That was often the problem with the otherwise powerful and advanced Imperial Japanese Navy in WW2 period. Many Japanese admirals insisted on focusing on air craft carriers, but the old school admirals still had influence in Navy planning as they believed that having huge expensive battleships was important, that's why the Yamato and Musahi were built. The Japanese also completely misused their submarine force, partly because some admirals thought using submarines like the Americans and Germans did was "dishonourable", sad as the Japanese had good submarines. The Japanese also never properly developed anti-submarine tactics and weapons until late into the war.