Industry not profiteering...

[synthshadow]

Evening all.

I'm currently playing as Brazil in 1880. My problem is my factories, if they produce any profitability at all make only between £2 and £4 a day. Unless of course they go bankrupt, close down, wait about a month then re-open. In which case they make £25 a day for a while before plummeting right down to bankrupcy again.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong? I tried to build the correct factories in areas that are relevant (such as wineries in fruit areas and paper mills in timber etc) as I wasn't sure if area plays a part. My population is 1.96 million and been concentrating mainly on prestige and culture techs which I've read is a good way to reach Great Power status as a secondary South American nation that doesn't really want to warmonger.

Should I research more economic/industry techs? Am I expecting millions from factories too soon? I'm not good at studying the world markets or things like that. Is my population too low? I try to NF Craftsmen where and when I can. I have massively neglected my military techs as all my neighbours are on very good relations and have no plans for war. Can't think of anything else that would help - oh I'm not yet a Great Power so can't sphere yet.

Any help I'd really appreciate it.

 

[Sakkura]

I wasn't sure if area plays a part

It doesn't, apart from the railroads in the state and the number of clerks and capitalists (who improve efficiency).

You probably need to get more commerce techs, and/or those industry techs that improve output (not throughput; that's much less important).

More population wouldn't really make the factories more profitable, it would just let you have more/bigger factories.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Research commerce techs, more specific the organization branch. Management strategy (1870) is a key tech that provides a massive input reduction (-9%!). Without it your industry will fall behind during the late game.
In addition, try to boost your score to improve your situation on the world marked - nations buy by rank. If you are at the bottom of the packing order, your industry will suffer.

 

[delra]

It's also very important what you're producing. As someone as small as Brazil you should let your competition bother with less expensive things, and yourself corner the market for the most profitable and modern goods.

 

[chals]

Get more prestige.. Colonies are the best way of getthing this, as each give something like 30, each. But if you have no such thing, Get more spealings..

And use the fact that your a HM, Chance to lassifare, things will close down, true, but the 10% extra outputt will healp, IF you can sell your stuff. + get teach the decrease the imiput need.

 

[unmerged(184583)]

Playing as Brazil, it'll be difficult to become and then remain a GP for more than a decade or two unless you colonize or conquer something.

Firstly you should conquer anything with your core on it - Columbia, Bolivia, Paraguay - added prestige plus more regions to build industries and produce craftsmen.

Secondly, you should conquer Hawaii, Johor, or Brunei before anyone spheres and/or befriends them. This will give you the range you need to colonize everything in the Pacific, and you can do it as Brazil, I have before.

As others have said, management strategy is where its at! One of the best techs if your trying to increase your industrial market share. Other than that, remember if you see your factories struggling for resources - either improve your prestige, your farm/mine output if you produce the needed goods, or sphere the materials you need. What I did playing as Brazil, was conquer most of SE Asia, then I had all the lumber and tropical wood I could desire, and I made a ton of money selling paper, furniture, and luxury furniture. Not the best game, but I learned a lot.

Lastly, your industry is never going to be able to compete with the likes of GB, Germany, or the USA until you own some land that produces coal. Coal is hands down the most important resource in the game for industrialization. Most coal is seemingly tied down with GP's, China, and Japan, but maybe Korea's could be taken easily, or perhaps others. I need to look at the map better to see if I can find any easier targets.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Promoting capitalists can be a good idea. The input reduction from their % in a state is significant even with all other input reduction techs researched.

 

[masteriw]

I am playing as Brazil too, #2 in prestige, got ALL commerce and industry techs researched, and most of my factories are still worthless. I can't get rubber or coal to fuel my industry.

 

[icedt729]

Korea has coal, and iron and timber to boot. I recommend conquering or sphering them.

 

[Demorel]

If you dont have a sphere or a giant pop you are basically screwed industry wise.
Subsidising dosent make any sense if you dont have the input, it will just cost you money and boost your score a tiny bit, so it only makes sense if you are already close to become a GP.
The only ways to get out of that would be:
1. Wait until the RGO boom kicks in around the 80´s and 90´s (com. retailers, electricity, tractors, nitro, mechanized mining, that wil make recources available for you) try to somehow
grow to GP status and secure a pop and resource rich sphere. - Hard as Brazil as everything that fits that criteria is on another continent=influence malus, focus on the Chinas, but you
will have to put down rebellions of them so maybe not compatible with your no-warmongering ambition.
2. Research Naval Harbour Tech for port range, get SP and try to colonize africa. - You will have 4 or 5 focus points when the needed techs for colonization are available, so you would
get a good piece of land and lots of prestige if you use troops to speed the process up.
Those are the only ways (For Brazil) that dont include warmongering I can think of.
You may get to somewhere between place 5 and 8 with number 2 but as you are already in the 80´s I guess you just have to wait for the resource boom
on the world market, build up industry, get craftsmen by maxing the taxes on the poor and then try to sphere. Start with China and continue with its substates,
then secure those while working on South America.

 

[synthshadow]

I'm sorry for the late reply - been working mainly but I wanted to thank every one for their valuable contributions, am about to put your collective advice to good use. Wanted to add that I don't mind warring on different continents like Asia or Africa to secure resources, just didn't really want to fight my near neighbours or GPs if I could help it. But rebellions and such like I have no issue squooshing .

Thank you all again and any addional tips would still be welcome, and Shiggs 713 if you or anyone else find better places to conquer I would be most grateful.

Ooo just wanted to ask as well, if I were to start again as Brazil from the 1836 start, would you recommend not bothering building factories until I could at least secure coal, iron that sort of thing? As I dont really seem to have trouble making money through taxes and/or tariffs.

 

[unmerged(184583)]

yea, don't even think about industrialization for at least 5 years or more as Brazil. Really most S. American countries you can ignore it for about that or even longer with no ill effects, because the very early factories will not last or make good profits anyways.

Another thing I've noticed, say once your capitalist are going strong (once projects start piling up faster than they can be completed), and you have a bunch of unemployed craftsmen (usual scenario)... NFing clerks on the latest patch seems to be the most effective way to increase industrial score. It basically makes the difference between mass bankruptcy, and mass expansion. Not to mention it perpetuates your ability to research and make factories profitable.

Somehow my current game as Japan I have almost 3% clerks in 1885, and my industry is killing it. Making USA look like the Banana Republic.

 

[chals]

The bedst Factory you can get it to make L furniture, however, dont make to much, (like 2-4) of em, and loots af Alcohol stuff, they will sell! There is no way you canget coal, so focus on something else, and its easy to get more land, "borrow some from all your naboyes.. Argentina has some great land, even thou ill start out with lokoking at Colombia, as they will get spired fast by USA, better get them first, and then move on to something else.. Always have some BB to burn off.

Focus on your Cleagy(NF), and the fasted way to get more NF it to conquer your pop type from other contryes that have em(you have a loot of cores AND argentina has some as well), it is not much, but all will help, and whatever thay have in pope will in time convert to your primiry culture type

 

[unmerged(109898)]

What's this about "no way to get coal"?
There is coal on Madagascar, you can conquer them in one year, no one will complain.

 

[Polar Mongoose]

yea, don't even think about industrialization for at least 5 years or more as Brazil. Really most S. American countries you can ignore it for about that or even longer with no ill effects, because the very early factories will not last or make good profits anyways.

Another thing I've noticed, say once your capitalist are going strong (once projects start piling up faster than they can be completed), and you have a bunch of unemployed craftsmen (usual scenario)... NFing clerks on the latest patch seems to be the most effective way to increase industrial score. It basically makes the difference between mass bankruptcy, and mass expansion. Not to mention it perpetuates your ability to research and make factories profitable.

Somehow my current game as Japan I have almost 3% clerks in 1885, and my industry is killing it. Making USA look like the Banana Republic.

Agreed on the clerks thing. Clerks provide a nice boost to the output efficiency of a factory, I think it is up to 30% for maximum clerk to craftsmen ratio. Since the key to profitable factories is getting the maximum output for the minimum input, clerks are really helpful.

For coal, you can also look to the Warri region of west Africa, although you will need to get all the techs needed for colonisation.

 

[chals]

Agreed on the clerks thing. Clerks provide a nice boost to the output efficiency of a factory, I think it is up to 30% for maximum clerk to craftsmen ratio. Since the key to profitable factories is getting the maximum output for the minimum input, clerks are really helpful.

For coal, you can also look to the Warri region of west Africa, although you will need to get all the techs needed for colonisation.

true, but at that time, it does not matter much, just import it, and rubber is much better, as well is oil, almost the same time..

 

[synthshadow]

Aside from Machine guns what else should I be heading towards colonisation-wise? Again, thank you all for your advice, going much further into my game now, though I think I left it a bit late to try and conquer certain places as most decent countries have already been sphered by the big-8 and I'm in no shape to try and take them on.

Looks like colonisation may be the next logical step - don't want to give up on this game unless I have to until the bitter end.

 

[Polar Mongoose]

Nationalism and imperialism on the culture screen and medicine on the industry screen (you want the anti malarial invention).

 

[Tsar Shamshir]

I've only played the game a few times, and as America. The first time was in the Demo and I rocked the Top 5 EASY for the whole time period. I went to the full game, and I struggled. I thought I knew more BEFORE the Demo. Maybe the difficulty was different.

My play method was that I tried to grow Pops, focused railroad research all the way to Pacific very early (NLT the late 50's- I thought moving raw mat's would spur growth), and Nat'l Focus on Capitalists. I wanted Furniture and Arms Factories in Midwest (Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan). I never did get the factories I wanted, even w/ changing focus and keeping a ridiculous gov't surplus to spur entrepreneurs.

So.... As stated above, do I focus on getting this "Management" tech and put Clerks as my Nat'l focus? I know USA is Laissez Faire, but what's the point of Nat'l focus if it doesn't influence?!

I think this game is easily the hardest i've ever played. CIV it is NOT! And I've been a gamer since the Commodore 64. Holy Crap.

Thank you!

P.S. THANK YOU PARADOX FOR A REASONABLE DRM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I HOPE YOU ARE MAKING GREAT PROFIT. **** UBIS*FT for its BIA EIB's ridiculous Vista-incompatible DRM and unwillingness to fix it. PARADOX IS FOUR SCORE NOTCHES ABOVE.

 

[Dron22]

1) Build your industries first to meet the demand of your own country, and try to keep poor taxes as low as you can so that they can afford more goods and stimulate industrial growth. But don't cut down on education, administration and leave the tariff slider at zero. Only raise tariffs if you need some cash quickly and put them back to 0% as soon as possible. Subsidizing imports is usually not worthwhile either.

2) Use national focus to get bureaucrats to 100% in each state, then promote capitalists, do that in provinces with the highest population first.

3) Don't subsidize any factories, at least never for long periods. Let the unprofitable factories fend for themselves, you can always reopen them later if demand increases. Your factories compete with each other, so if you subsidize, for example, an unprofitable winery in province A, you are effectively undercutting business for another winery in province B that would otherwise be making good profits. Subsidizing both is not a good idea either. It's much better to have one very efficient and profitable winery then having 5 of them in different provinces that are barely balancing their books. Your capitalists earn a lot of money from profitable factories and therefore will pay a lot more in tax.

4) Military industries like small arms, clipper shipyard, canned food and artillery factories, are usually only able to sell to the state ( ie. you), so if you want them to do well you need to build more brigades and ships, and have your national stockpile set to 100% all the time. If you don't plan on any fighting wars, ignore military techs, just research machine guns as it will be needed for colonization. It still makes sense to build an army and navy, as the industries will create lots of jobs, and what you spend daily on purchasing their goods through national stockpile slider, you will get back through taxing capitalists.