Industrialization as a democracy (Chile, to be specific)

[johadia]

I'm having a tough time getting my capitalists to build factories in Chile. As the country starts as a democracy, I can't get a party into power that uses State Capitalism.

All of my provinces have between .50 and 1.00% capitalists, and I've gotten my literacy up into the 60% range. I've played until 1905, and gone through a couple huge waves of immigration that taper off once word reaches the old country that there are no jobs in Chile. Most of the industrial trees have been researched, aside from naval. Tariffs are at 0%, middle class taxes are low, rich taxes are at 0%. Chile is possibly the most democratic nation in the world, in an effort to attract immigrants.

The capitalists are screwing it all up, though. They've built two worthless factories in Santiago, luxury clothes and artillery, that I don't have inputs for and which were quickly closed. They did build a successful liqor distillery in my second-most populous province, which has grain, but refuse to expand it despite being wildly profitable (+20 for lvl 1), even though there are thousands of craftsmen waiting to go to work. All of my provinces have at least 10,000 unemployed craftsmen now, despite my never using that NF. I have NF'd for specific industries, encourage capitalists, railroads, clerks. No luck. They have built railroads, though, and they will start projects but never fund them.


I'm at a loss, and have no idea what I can do. I've reloaded from several different points in time to try different variables, but with no luck. Ugh.

 

[johadia]

FYI, this is on HoD

 

[EUnderhill]

Since capitalists share the same income pool, having more of them means there is less money for investment left over once their needs are met.

 

[unmerged(171730)]

I am with you. I was coming to ask the same questions. I am playing Mexico and experiencing the same kind of lunacy. The capitalists always want to build factories in the most inefficient areas for input. For example, they want to build a steel factory in the absolutely southern part of the country. Yet, all my coal and iron resources are in the North, almost the furthest northern part of the country. Once they suggest a project like this they won't suggest another one.

In addition, like you said, they always suggest these projects but never build them. I have to fund all the projects for them to be built. If I don't build them, then I don't get any other suggested projects.

So far, I have a Liquor Distillery where all my fruit is located, far away from my grain areas. I have a Winery where all my grain is located, far away from my fruit areas. And, I have Fabric Factory, that at least is in a same region that has dye.

Based on EUnderhill's response I am thinking that maybe I don't want any capitalist at all. Or, do I need them to suggest projects? Otherwise, I am thinking the capitalist see me as a sucker. "Let's suggest this project but give it no funds. The sucker government will fund it 100%. Boowhahahahahahahaha!"

On the issue of National Focus (NF), I have yet to figure out what to do with that function. It doesn't seem to really change anything. I have "build railroads" as a NF, yet the suggested railroad projects are all in regions other than where I have the NF. And, by the way, I have to fund the railroads 100% so what is the purpose of using the NF? I should just build the railroads I want to build. I set the NF in the south to "wood industry" since I have lots of timber in that area. Instead, I get the "Steel Factory" project. I was thinking that would give me a lumber mill. I have yet to have anything positive result from me setting a NF. So, why bother with the NF then? Is it required to have the NF set for a very long period of time?

- Signed Confused Newbie

 

[alexti]

How much money your capitalists have? This problem sounds like a problem of poor capitalists. Typically, for LF industrialization you need to focus on commerce tech to make sure factories are profitable - then capitalists will have money to build more and then sooner or later they will build something reasonable.

 

[johadia]

I'd assume they are pretty well off- I've researched most of the commerce tree. Really, I just can't figure out why they don't do anything. Even getting them to invest in railroads is like pulling teeth.

Also, if I can't get them to build that first factory, then how do they get the money to invest later? Rich taxes are already at 0%, middle are pretty low.

 

[unmerged(171730)]

Ah, I think I see what you are saying. I need to go into my population screen and see how much money the capitalists have. That might help my get an idea of why they don't actually invest anything.

Though, I am with johadia on this. I would think they are pretty well off. The factories I do have are all profitable, so I would assume they have some money. Maybe they are just not receiving enough to pay for their goods and invest in new projects. Is that about right?

 

[alexti]

Yes, you can check it in the population screen. If capitalists have enough money you'll see them having thousands saved in the bank. If they don't have much savings then that's why they don't build anything. First factory is a tricky business - you can hope that some rich pops promote to capitalists and start building something (usually useless) or you can take it in your hands and conquer something with a suitable factory

 

[GAGA Extrem]

(1) If capitalists lack capital to invest into factories, I'd suggest to lower their taxes and set a promotion NF to convert mid strata pops - they will start off with some cash reserves that they will dump into the current project, speeding up the process quite a bit. (But I guess that's not your problem atm.)
(2) It seems that capitalists do not extend factories under certain circumstances. Not 100% when and why, but a regular problem is that they build a late game factory (electric gear, cars, etc.) where they cannot get the needed construction materials. Might that have happened to you?
(3) If you have interventionism, subside all factories. It seems that capis do only expand / build new factories if the total capacity of the state is used by a certain %, so if you have an unprofitable factory that is barely alive with 80% of the workslots empty, that *might* cause a problem.
(4) Long-term solution: Set NF to promote an ideology that has a party with State Capitalism. It will take a while, but after a certain time, the elections should turn out in favor of that ideology.

Lastely, if you can upload the savegame, I'll have a closer look to see if I can locate the problem.

 

[Icendoan]

Get a party with state capitalism in yourself, and do it yourself, and tax the rich to do it.

 

[Orko80]

For the capitalist to earn money they need to sell goods. They can only sell goods if poorer pops have money. So if you tax the poor and middle class out of the wazoo the rich will earn less money. So tax the rich but tax the poor less.
This has several effects the capitalist can potential earn more money, the poor have less militancy and more everyday needs fullfilled and promote faster.

 

[johadia]

The capitalists have no money, but they have no expenses, either. I've watched their money for a few months and they have no savings, income, expenses, or cash. All the other pops this fluctuates.


I did think of an early way around the state capitalism problem, but it does seem cheap- let the reactionaries win. This should give a few years to lay the groundwork before the anarcho-liberals or jacobins rise up. After they win, the country will be attractive to immigrants again.

 

[unmerged(171730)]

For the capitalist to earn money they need to sell goods. They can only sell goods if poorer pops have money. So if you tax the poor and middle class out of the wazoo the rich will earn less money. So tax the rich but tax the poor less.
This has several effects the capitalist can potential earn more money, the poor have less militancy and more everyday needs fullfilled and promote faster.

I just like that you used "wazoo". You don't see that used enough in my opinion.

Thanks all, this gives me something to consider. I was taxing the wazoo out of my poor and middle class, because my economy had gone wonky. After many years of stability, it just tanked. It flat lined in deep red. The only way I could get it to a point of stopping the hemorrhaging was to tax everyone at unacceptable levels, except the rich as there contribution in taxes was minimal at best. Doing that my budget line is whipsawing back and forth like a sidewinder moving across the sands. But, at least the green peaks are higher than the red valleys. I can't figure out why it is doing that, but all of the advice here has given me things to look at.

I don't think it solves johadia's issue though. Sorry if it seems like I high jacked your thread johadia. Was not my intent. Hopefully, I helped by serving as a bump to your post.

 

[unmerged(179898)]

Forget it, only state capitalism works in this game, the AI is too stupid, they always choose the worse factory to build, I hope Vic 3 will have it worked out, the game needs a decent AI.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Forget it, only state capitalism works in this game, the AI is too stupid, they always choose the worse factory to build, I hope Vic 3 will have it worked out, the game needs a decent AI.

Nah. If your country is big enough, L-F will yield quite impressive results. Granted, it lacks a bit when it comes to late game factories, but its not *broken* by any means.