Industrialism mod(1.03)

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Interesting - my mods that I'm putting out in the bug forum used almost exactly the same approach. And I haven't been looking at your files to date. Which is encouraging as it would seem to imply we are both on the right track. I've avoided increasing the efficiencies for the time being as thats a kind of difficulty modifier. I've included the file as an attachment.

You might like to try putting a low demand for clothes and furniture in the clerks and craftsmen life needs (0.1 or so) This allows the demand for these products to be kept high even though the Aristos and Capitalists are struggling. I've found that including even a small amount of demand will keep a product from bottoming out at £0.50

Thanks Derek for your comments.
In my first versions of this mod i don't noticed that the demands have affects on the prices on WM.
So now that i've understand the the dependencies of economy(i think i did ) it will work a bit better i hope.
The higher efficiencies i've made to make the game a bit easier.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Thanks Derek for your comments.
In my first versions of this mod i don't noticed that the demands have affects on the prices on WM.
So now that i've understand the the dependencies of economy(i think i did ) it will work a bit better i hope.
The higher efficiencies i've made to make the game a bit easier.

You can collapse the price of trade item by increasing the POP demands for goods before it appears in the list of POP needs. So the price of Opium collapses because all POPs have spent their money before they get around to buying it.

The reason why I suggested transferring clothes and furniture demand from upper to middle / lower classes is that this will allow a reduced clothes demand for upper class whilst maintaining the profitability of the factories. Which means that upper class needs like luxury furniture and clothes may get a more healthy demand as the upper class pOPs fill their life needs and start buying everyday needs.

 

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New version 0.2a

So i've uploaded another new version!
Changes:

added a little demand of furniture and clothes 
to life demands of upper and middle classes to support prices on WM(thanks Derek!)

 

[Derek Pullem]

Has anyone got any feedback on these changes. My own set of data (which is very similar) results in certain goods (clothes and furniture amongst them) having sharply lower prices (circa 60 and 30 compared to 90 and 60 in 1.03). Clothes still make a healthy profit but not the super profits they were making before.

Now my assumption from this is that the demand is never satisfied by supply. With 1.03 the imbalance is higher on a daily basis so the price of the goods are higher. The interesting thing here is that an unfulfilled demand is setting the price of an item. We could raise the base price of clothes and furniture to get back to the original selling price - in theory this would result in less purchases due to higher cost - but as demand does not decrease with price. So in theory the price of an item is only determined by the position of that item in the demand profile for each POP.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying and have any input? :rofl:

 

[Hammer54]

Has anyone got any feedback on these changes. My own set of data (which is very similar) results in certain goods (clothes and furniture amongst them) having sharply lower prices (circa 60 and 30 compared to 90 and 60 in 1.03). Clothes still make a healthy profit but not the super profits they were making before.

Now my assumption from this is that the demand is never satisfied by supply. With 1.03 the imbalance is higher on a daily basis so the price of the goods are higher. The interesting thing here is that an unfulfilled demand is setting the price of an item. We could raise the base price of clothes and furniture to get back to the original selling price - in theory this would result in less purchases due to higher cost - but as demand does not decrease with price. So in theory the price of an item is only determined by the position of that item in the demand profile for each POP.

Does anyone understand what I'm saying and have any input? :rofl:

Hi Derek Pullem. I do understand what you are getting at. I'm currently working an a kind of "paper" on this, which I'm going to relay to Johan later this week. If you'd like, I can send you a copy.

 

[Grosshaus]

Hi Derek Pullem. I do understand what you are getting at. I'm currently working an a kind of "paper" on this, which I'm going to relay to Johan later this week. If you'd like, I can send you a copy.

I doubt he has the time to read it in detail with CK and all. Instead I'd suggest you post it in a thread.

 

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How about adding this in VIP?

 

[unmerged(23737)]

How about adding this in VIP?

Thanks Tellu for your advertisement!
I have no problem adding this to Vip... later this evening i will present a big update of this mod including following:

• - one ai file for all german minors(makes it easier for the minors to resists the 48'er revolutions and this means it's a bit easier to get CE event)
• -Prussia is a bit enhanced(added south german as state culture) look here for discussion on this
• -Russia looses one paper mill in GC startup to weaken those overpowered giant a bit
• -and much more

 

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[*]-Russia looses one paper mill in GC startup to weaken those overpowered giant a bit

And what did you do to compensate this on WM?

 

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Hi.
russia starts in vanilla 1.03 setup with 3 lumber mills in and looses now one... i don't think lumber is the problem!
I've looked at my save file which is at 1848 and russia have built a lot of lumber mills(i've counted 4) and i was not a the end of russias tag.

 

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Is there any economy work done on VIP?

Grosshaus?

 

[Grosshaus]

Is there any economy work done on VIP?

Grosshaus?

Dunno, ask Generalisimo. I doubt that though.

But as changing province productions and events do change economics these mods might not work the same way gamebalancewise with VIP and vanilla patches.

 

[unmerged(457)]

Dunno, ask Generalisimo. I doubt that though.

But as changing province productions and events do change economics these mods might not work the same way gamebalancewise with VIP and vanilla patches.

I just feel the whole VIP project is ignoring a large part of the game. The needs of POPs.

I'd like to see all the good aspects of diffrent mods brought together like CORE in HoI. I thought this was VIP's purpose?

Wasnt it?

 

[Generalisimo]

I just feel the whole VIP project is ignoring a large part of the game. The needs of POPs.

I'd like to see all the good aspects of diffrent mods brought together like CORE in HoI. I thought this was VIP's purpose?

Wasnt it?

Well, if you look carefully, you will see that there are more than 4 different economics mod with different approach... not an easy task to choose one...
Also, we are not robots, we cannot improve everything in just minutes, just gives us some time!!!

 

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Big update

So folks here is the big update!!!
Download it in first post!
Changes to previous version:

• halved everyday and luxury needs again and lowered life needs a bit
• added a little bit of wool as in put for fabric factory and therefore i increased the efficiency of fabrik factory a bit
• give sulphur rgo's a bit more efficiency
• added an ai file for each german minor(they will now build more troops against revolts but they still need support of you.... also the factory ai is improved a bit)
• gave Hannover their second landdivision back and remove moblization of 1 therefore in GC startup(they should perform better against early revolts)
• added south german state culture to prussia to improve performance(especially in comparision to russia)

So in my test's the upper class will get 100/30-50/0 of their demands!
The lower classes have no problems...
WM prices are more stable now for example in '65:
clothes ->~52
furniture ->~24
precious metal ->~34

The new ai file should give the german minor states a better performance and better factory building for ai.
I will add soon new ai's for the grater german minors like bavaria and hannover.
I need your suggestions on other 1,03 ai files that needs improvement!
Have fun!!!

 

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Wilhelm II

I used your Industrialization mod (from march 8th) playing Japan in GC until about 1880 and found it worked nicely.

A few things I noticed

1- Steel, Reg & Lux Clothes, Paper, Reg & Lux Furniture were a lot lower priced then I've seen in previous versions. Not sure if this is WaD or not.
Steel - Approx $23
Paper - Approx $25
Reg Furn - $45
Everything seemed about 1/2 of what I recall it being.

2- Prec. Metals were more then 0.50, Usually around $7

3- There were shortages of Ammo (0 avail through the whole game. Total production for world was 7 in 1870. A few times, there were shortages of coal, but that was it.

Pop needs were met (Edit: for some reason, I lost all upper class so these comments only apply to mid and low) slowly at first (due to only being able to tax at min. 50%. Where does the other money go? Tax Efficiency was 30% so I'd guess the pops don't keep the difference) but through the game, they all managed to get full low, med and about 30-60% high needs (sorry, I can't remember the exact names).

Works well

Zed

 

[Derek Pullem]

Wilhelm II

I used your Industrialization mod (from march 8th) playing Japan in GC until about 1880 and found it worked nicely.

A few things I noticed

1- Steel, Reg & Lux Clothes, Paper, Reg & Lux Furniture were a lot lower priced then I've seen in previous versions. Not sure if this is WaD or not.
Steel - Approx $23
Paper - Approx $25
Reg Furn - $45
Everything seemed about 1/2 of what I recall it being.

2- Prec. Metals were more then 0.50, Usually around $7

3- There were shortages of Ammo (0 avail through the whole game. Total production for world was 7 in 1870. A few times, there were shortages of coal, but that was it.

Pop needs were met (Edit: for some reason, I lost all upper class so these comments only apply to mid and low) slowly at first (due to only being able to tax at min. 50%. Where does the other money go? Tax Efficiency was 30% so I'd guess the pops don't keep the difference) but through the game, they all managed to get full low, med and about 30-60% high needs (sorry, I can't remember the exact names).

Works well

Zed

If I can answer for Wilhelm II.

The lower prices are due to the supply /demand imbalance being reduced. What was happening before was that the demand was always >> supply and the price of the goods was rising to max allowable by algorithms. With reduced needs the imbalance is reduced or eliminated and prices fall down to more normal levels. You can check this by comparing actual game prices to base prices in the .txt file.

The same argument goes in reverse for gold. Because there is now sufficient cash to create a demand the price of the precious metals now are not limit low but bottom out in the £10-£20 range normally.

 

[unmerged(22442)]

If I can answer for Wilhelm II.

The lower prices are due to the supply /demand imbalance being reduced. What was happening before was that the demand was always >> supply and the price of the goods was rising to max allowable by algorithms. With reduced needs the imbalance is reduced or eliminated and prices fall down to more normal levels. You can check this by comparing actual game prices to base prices in the .txt file.

The same argument goes in reverse for gold. Because there is now sufficient cash to create a demand the price of the precious metals now are not limit low but bottom out in the £10-£20 range normally.

Thanks Derek,

I was actually just trying to provide some feedback for both you and Wilhelm II as I saw he asked for feedback in this thread and I didn't see too many here.

I wasn't sure if the prices in #1 were as desired or not, but if they are, it is a lot easier to upgrade pops now. As well, I could always get more of these items from the WM.

The only thing I was confused about was how tax efficiency works or more specifically when it is calculated, however I am going to re-read Crimson King's post in the main forum to learn more and to see where the money goes (ie: does the pop get it back, is it lost...) I recall you posting about some funds getting re-distributed to the pops but I'm not sure if this was the example used.

Aside from the coal and moreso the Ammo shortages, the mod seems to work quite well.

Zed

 

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Thanks Derek for your good analysis!
Zedrow thanks for your comments... i thought no one anymore interested in my mod!

For the shortages(ammo,machine parts...) there will be many improved ai files(better factory building of ai) in next version of mod, but i think it will take a few days more of testing!

 

[Derek Pullem]

Actually the coal and the ammo shortages are to some extent linked.

Because of the high demand for steel (railways, steamers, ammo - I think - etc.) the steel price is high. Plus the profitability of ammo and small arms is low due to high steel content. So the AI tends to build steel factories and not ammo. Which results in a shortage of coal and also ammo.

We noticed this when trying to fix the not profitable small arms problem. At first we thought it was a shortage of sulphur but to make them really profitable you have to reduce the steel content. Trouble was that the AI then went beserk building ammo and small arms at the expense of steel for railways which actually hindered industrial development but resulted in larger armies. So we shelved the "fix small arms" campaign