Industrialisation and Civilisation are ruining my economy!

[unmerged(17581)]

I'm playing VIP 0.4b as an undisclosed minor uncivilised nation. I had built myself a nice little empire, complete with constitutional monarchy and Good healthcare upkeep. Exporting resources, I could afford to set my education and crime fighting sliders at max, while getting about 20 pounds a day. So in 1875, with a lot of money pooled up and resources stockpiled, I decided to go for civilisation. By 1877 I had 2 lv 2 steel factories, 1 lv 2 fabric mill, 1 lv 1 lumber mill, and 1 lv 2 glass factory. One lv 2 steel factory and 1 lv 2 glass factory were only halfway filled. This got me up to exactly 50 ind points.

Then I built my military, mass-conscripting colonials and building a Large, Unnecessary Cavalry Corps of 25 divisions. This and 30 new native infantry divisions boosted my mil score to >10.

However, after my industrialisation, I noticed that my income had dropped to the level of where even if I eliminated crime fighting, I was still running at -10 profit. Then, when I civilised, my education and crime fighting costs went up through the roof, and at full education I was running at a -150 deficit per day!

So what's up? I thought that industrialisation was supposed to make a profit, and that civilisation is supposed to give me all these great benefits. The only thing that they've done is kill my revenues and bloat my expenses to the point where I have to completely eliminate education and crime fighting just to break even!

 

[unmerged(17581)]

So, uh, in conclusion, any tips to get my economy back onto its feet?

 

[unmerged(33881)]

Civilizing doubles education and crime spending.

I had similar problems when I played China in an unmodified game. Making factories ended up making me loose money instead of making it. Converting the game to 1.03c helped a little, but I ended up having to boost taxes as tarrifs dwindled to nothing.

It seems factory production cuts down on the number of goods imported and thus tarrifs are reduced as well.

 

[unmerged(5205)]

So you're playing as Ethiopia?

 

[clamp2004]

I'm playing VIP 0.4b as an undisclosed minor uncivilised nation. I had built myself a nice little empire, complete with constitutional monarchy and Good healthcare upkeep. Exporting resources, I could afford to set my education and crime fighting sliders at max, while getting about 20 pounds a day. So in 1875, with a lot of money pooled up and resources stockpiled, I decided to go for civilisation. By 1877 I had 2 lv 2 steel factories, 1 lv 2 fabric mill, 1 lv 1 lumber mill, and 1 lv 2 glass factory. One lv 2 steel factory and 1 lv 2 glass factory were only halfway filled. This got me up to exactly 50 ind points.

Then I built my military, mass-conscripting colonials and building a Large, Unnecessary Cavalry Corps of 25 divisions. This and 30 new native infantry divisions boosted my mil score to >10.

However, after my industrialisation, I noticed that my income had dropped to the level of where even if I eliminated crime fighting, I was still running at -10 profit. Then, when I civilised, my education and crime fighting costs went up through the roof, and at full education I was running at a -150 deficit per day!

So what's up? I thought that industrialisation was supposed to make a profit, and that civilisation is supposed to give me all these great benefits. The only thing that they've done is kill my revenues and bloat my expenses to the point where I have to completely eliminate education and crime fighting just to break even!

you'll research much faster thogh.

A way to make money is to built claims in colonies that UK/France wants... then sell them... build reg cloth factories to start earning money. Set military to lowest possibly. Wreck Persia or OE. Then you get some money.

 

[unmerged(17581)]

So Reg. Clothes factories will be sufficiently profitable? Because it would be more profitabl for me to take my POPs out of my steel factories and back onto the coffee plantations/cattle drives at this moment...

 

[unmerged(17581)]

I know about all the benefits of civilisation. Much faster research, not needing borders for declaration, reserves, can take unciv land without BB, etc. But civilisation was supposed to raise my tax and tariff revenues appreciably, and it has not raised my tax and tariff levels appreciably. At least, not nearly enough to offset the greater expense costs...

 

[unmerged(5205)]

I know about all the benefits of civilisation. Much faster research, not needing borders for declaration, reserves, can take unciv land without BB, etc. But civilisation was supposed to raise my tax and tariff revenues appreciably, and it has not raised my tax and tariff levels appreciably. At least, not nearly enough to offset the greater expense costs...

You might have to research some of the commercial techs first to really see a difference in tax income

 

[clamp2004]

So Reg. Clothes factories will be sufficiently profitable? Because it would be more profitabl for me to take my POPs out of my steel factories and back onto the coffee plantations/cattle drives at this moment...

then do that. Just get enough money to start industrializing with nifty facs. Steel facs sucks at profit making compared to reg cloth.

 

[unmerged(17581)]

Ah. I was under the impression that steel factories were mints. I suppose I'll have to try Reg. Clothes.

 

[unmerged(5205)]

Ah. I was under the impression that steel factories were mints. I suppose I'll have to try Reg. Clothes.

I was under that impression also. In my games, steel factories are always high in profit. I think it takes a while for them to be very profitable in VIP though

 

[unmerged(37275)]

yes, in VIP I dont think I have ever seen a steel factory in positive. You need to build lumber or fabric factories early on as they are very profitable. I think the prob is that you have lots of clerks and craftsmen who (clerks esp) need more spent on them for education. if they are not in a profit making factory then they will not pay for themselves. Also, are you now using up all your resourse you used to be selling to run these factories? Or are you importing lots. This could also cause the factory/country to lose money.

Close all non-profit making factories, and convert any idle clerks or craftmen back to labourers, that may help the situation.

Have you eliminated social spending? I beleive you still get the healthcare benifit without having to pay any social (they it will slightly annoy your people)

 

[AndersSchm]

VOTE ANONYMOUS4401

Do you still have all of those native infantry divisions/cavalry? How is your army/defence spending?

 

[unmerged(17581)]

My defence spending
Costs me fifty, not enough
To fund all my schools

 

[clamp2004]

Well unfund your military first!!! 50 bucks a day, is alot even for the mighty abysinnian empire. Like alot of people have said go ahead and demote your pops so you can produce some stuff to sell for a profit. Secondly you should start railroading any province that is producing nice 1st tier goods, such as silk/tropical wood/iron/coal/whatever. Push crime back to minimum (nobrainer), get some money in fast, so you can build clothing industry. After clothing industry, you move into luxury clothing. Don't build fabric/lumber mills. They pay off the same amount as clothing in the beginning and much less the further you get into the game. disband your native quality divisions (unless you only have those), except those that are cavalry. Soon you will have enough to build some nice divisions that don't suck.
Tariffs to max and taxes to 50% for all. No need to check with con and mil atm. You can worry about those later on.

 

[unmerged(17581)]

Well, my crime budget is at zero, and I'm keeping my defence budget this high until I get my MP back, so I can demobilise and such. I don't have any railroad tech (Unless you get 2 Scientist Defecting or 3 Unexpected Invention events, as an unciv it is pretty much impossible to get railroads by 1880. Unless you get lucky and other nations initiate tech trades.) Also, I see no reason to disband my native infantry, though I did disband my native cavalry. I'm keeping them infantry. I'm not going to kill myself with army upkeep costs yet!

I suppose the only thing I can take away is the reg clothes thing.

 

[clamp2004]

try keep the fabric/lumber/glass mill running. They are slightly profitable... (around 5-10 bucks a day fully staffed I think)

 

[unmerged(38918)]

then do that. Just get enough money to start industrializing with nifty facs. Steel facs sucks at profit making compared to reg cloth.

WHAT??? Whenever I build reg clothes factories my tarrif income plummets and I make a loss. I've tried it several times so I know what I'm saying is true.

 

[unmerged(45852)]

WHAT??? Whenever I build reg clothes factories my tarrif income plummets and I make a loss. I've tried it several times so I know what I'm saying is true.

I think he is playing VIP where the world is backwards. Certainly my experience in vanilla is that steel is great and regular clothes rather poor.

 

[unmerged(38918)]

I think he is playing VIP where the world is backwards. Certainly my experience in vanilla is that steel is great and regular clothes rather poor.

Ah. Yeah same here. Build lots of steel mills then build steamers.