Industrial Score

[november]

IPs derive only from these things: researched techs, factories and their efficiencies, and railroads.

Each researched tech adds 1 IP. This explains the initial IPs for many countries.

The most important source of IPs by far is factories, specifically the number of workers and their efficiencies.

We have 2 clues about this:

(taken from Rafiki's Discussion FAQ) The base rule is that the larger the POP, the more is contributes to production. However, Victoria uses a tiered system to represent this:
Code:

POP size Contribution to production
1 - 499 0.33
500 - 20.000 0.50
20.001 - 50.000 0.75
50.001 - 100.000 1.00

This means a level one factory with 250,001 workers is running at 100%.

The second clue comes from \db\economy\factory-efficiency.txt. There we find that most factories have an efficiency of 1. Several have a rate of 2.5:
glass
steel
cement
fabric
lumber

1 factory, machine parts, has an efficiency of .25. All others are rated at 1.

So here is the formula for determining IP scores:

(average level of railroads * 10) + number of techs researched + (factory efficiency * 8 * factory level)=base IPs

The base IP figure can be reduced by debt, blockades (or lack of transports), (possibly) war exhaustion, and (possibly) Mafia crime building in a state containing a factory.

Things that don't effect IPs: RGOs, lack of raw materials for a factory

Thanks to Coco and Politruk!

[EDITS: I'll continue to edit this post with concrete info.]

 

[unmerged(46403)]

I think Capitalists do generate IPs, but these are only calculated at the start of the next month. I remember a game with Sweden, where i had a number of factories with all slots full in Gottaland; if i promoted a significant number of POPs to capitalists, at the beginning of the next month i remember a jump in IPs. I may be mistaken, though.

 

[november]

Additional observations.

If you close a factory, you lose all its IPs.

Debt lowers IP. Enough debt can produce a negative IP score. This can be brutal if you're playing a middling nation struggling to become a super power in order to get machine parts.

 

[november]

I think Capitalists do generate IPs, but these are only calculated at the start of the next month. I remember a game with Sweden, where i had a number of factories with all slots full in Gottaland; if i promoted a significant number of POPs to capitalists, at the beginning of the next month i remember a jump in IPs. I may be mistaken, though.

Perhaps. A problem one faces when trying to puzzle this out is that because IPs are tied to factory efficiency, the scores move around as the factory pops grow. I'll check this out and modify my original thread if needs be.

 

[unmerged(36402)]

my assumption on capitalists is that they increase ip's because they increase factory efficiency. They definately do increase IP's, but i think they do it indirectly only (and obviously this also depends on the tech influences upon capitalist effciency)

just looking at the figures you gave, if the efficiency is less than 100% then it seems that efficiency is used straight (60% of 8 is 4.8, 25% of it is 2)
now, over 100% from just your figures its clearly different... since the 160% your mentioning returns a 275% increase in score... which is 1.66 squared (pretty close to 160%... are you sure thats not been truncated by the display?)

It needs some special testing i think... which, if i have time, i might do during this week ...

 

[november]

There's several modifiers at work. The upgrade itself increases the rate of IP generation. Plus the extra slots enable more pops which gives a direct increase in efficiency.

Railroads also increase the efficiency. I'm not convinced that capitalists have an effect on IP generation. Their effect may be the same as that of aristocrats on RGOs: an increase in output but none on IPs.

 

[november]

My tests confirm that capitilists have no effect on IP generation.

 

[november]

Other things for you to ponder.

Placing railroads in all provinces of a state adds about 20% to the factories efficiency, at least level 1 roads do so. After placing 7 RRs in an 8 province state, efficiency improved by 10%. Adding the 8th jumped it to a little over 20%.

*Always finish roads in all of a state's provinces.*

Although roads improved factory efficiency by 20%, the number of IPs increased by 70%. For example, in an 8 province state, the 3 factories were generating 7 IPs. After all the roads were done, the IP total jumped to 12.

However, after closing all factories in all states, I still had 3 IPs over and above my research total. In other words, railroads generate IPs in addition to affecting factory efficiency.

*There is a difference between "efficiency" used to calculate factory goods production, and "efficiency" used to generate IPs.*

A level 1 lumber mill at 107.7% generated 4 IPs. Upgrading it to level 2 immediately generated an additional 5 IPs. This happens before the upgrade is completed. Adding one 26k clerk pop added 2 more IPs; adding another 26k craftsman pop added 1 more. This particular mill is operating at 150% and generating 12 IPs. All provinces in its state have a level 1 road. There are 4.5k caps in the state.

 

[unmerged(29814)]

Industrial Score = Technologies + RRs + POPs in factories.
Every Technology = 1 point.
RRs: 10 * average RR level.
Factories: Production formula * factory level * 8.

For easy calculation: daily production * factory level * 8.
Debt decreases IS.
Sea transport efficiency < 100% decreases IS even when provicies lacking sea transport have no factories.

I take my game as Hawaii, VIP 0.4, VH/F as example.
1920 Hawaii had IS 3103.
All factories closed IS was 129, 125 techs, average RR level 0.4.

When I moved all clercks and craftsmen, 154 POPs, to level 50 fabric factory,
Hawaii had IS 22901.
Daily production was 56.93.
129 + 56.93 * 50 * 8 = 22901.

I saved this factory setting and loded the game as Argentina on different difficuly levels and checked Hawaii´s IS.

On VH Hawaii had IS 45673.
On H Hawaii had IS 34287.
On N Hawaii had IS 25178.
On E and VE Hawaii had IS 22901.

 

[unmerged(29814)]

More experiments with my game as Hawaii.

I DOWed UK and let them blockade my ports in South Africa and control 10 provinces.

When UK blöckaded 5 of my 31 ports in SA (16.1%), my IS dropped from 22901 to 19207.
I used "Neville" for white peace when Hawaii had warscore -10%.
Every negativ % warscore gives 10% war exhaustion, so Hawaii had 100% WE

I DOWed Argentina and saved the game.
When I loaded the game as Argentina on different difficulty levels I saw something intresting.

Hawaii had war exhaustion 100%.
On VH Hawaii had IS 43492.
ON H Hawaii had IS 32651.
On N Hawaii had IS 23979.
On E and VE Hawaii had IS 21811.
When I loaded the game as Hawaii, Hawaii had IS 11552.

It seems that war exhaustion effect is different for player compared to AI.
For player: 1-WE/2 in production and IS.
For AI: 1-WE/20 in production and IS.

 

[november]

Now we're cooking with gas. But how did you derive this formula? It doesn't seem to hold up.

My level 1 glass factory has a daily production of 1 and an efficiency of 104%. By your formula it should generate 8 IP:

1 factory level * 1 daily production * 8

But when I close and reopen the factory, only 5 IP is generated.

In a level 2 lumber mill producing 1.1 and with an efficiency of 200%, by your formula it should produce 17.8 IP but actually generates 16.

I never noticed that WE or lack of convoys affects IPs. If true, that's another nice piece of the puzzle.

 

[unmerged(36402)]

Ok ive just done a bit of testing and can confirm what politruk said...

Tested using 3 province uruguay.
Rail roads indeed provide 10 x average level, giving an availiable 50 IP (this helps balance out smaller countries vs larger ones)
Each tech is worth 1 IP, regardless of type (i tested commerce, culture, industry and military)
Factories are worth efficiency x 8 x factory level; with efficiency being as per page 11 of the ledger.

When i closed the factory it went back to being worth 0; reopening the factory and running 1 day brought it back in line with the above formula.

This forumla of course, is bugged, since efficiency is already based upon the performance relative to a level 1 factory, rather than being based upon the actual factory level.

So anyway... factors of IP. There are alot, but only the 3 above are direct factors.

1. Techs direct factor, 1 per level for a total of 125. Possible indirect (untested) factor of being unciv.
2. Railroads direct factor, 10*average level, for a total of 50. Possible indirect + untested factor of land access to capital.
3. Factories direct factor, 8*efficiency*level. Indirect factors:
   • Factory base efficiency (starts at 2.5 for the 6 1st tier factories, 1 for all others, except .25 for machine parts)
   • Pop size/quality (see previous threads/manuals on size/culture/literacy)
   • Factory Province Infrastructure (see previous threads on railroading, some crime buildings also affect this)
   • Capitalists (these do not have a direct effect on IPs, only an effect on factory efficiency) Some techs make capitalists more efficient.

I didnt test:
capitalists, aristocrats, misc crime buildings. Literacy and money add no score.

 

[Strategist]

Great work people. I always knew these effects but I never took the time to figure out the exact formulas o

 

[november]

Following this new formula (using efficiency instead of production) still doesn't produce the correct IPs.

BUT what seems to work is using only efficiency provided by the pops themselves. For example, a level 1 glass factory at 100% should produce 8 IPs if Coco is right. But the one in my game is only generating 5 IPs. However, if I only use the number of pops--about 180k which would represent about 72% efficiency--then the formula works (depending on how rounding is done). The factory's additional efficiency in this instance is due to railroads and caps (and maybe a tech).

In addition, I have a level 2 factory which is running at 200%. In this case, there are sufficient pops to generate that number. So, using Coco's formula it should generate 32 IPS. But it's only generating 16.

It looks to me that the formula for factory IP production is

8* pop efficiency (that is, the population in the factory only)

All other efficiencies are ignored as far as IP generation is concerned.

 

[november]

I think the reason you guys who are experimenting with end game pops get different values is due to the way population efficiency is handled.

A 50,001 pop is 100% efficient. This means that a level one factory is 100% efficient when there are 250,001 pops in it. But a level 1 factory can have 499,995 pops. These additional pops are ignored.

BUT once you upgrade, those additional pops are *not* ignored. This would explain why upgrading a factory can immediately add IPs.

 

[unmerged(36402)]

ok i did some more testing. Im going to try put this across and still make sense... All efficiencies quoted come from page 11 of the ledger, which, barring rounding, exactly matches the recorded output of the factory in the normal screen. This is all done in vanilla 1.03c.
All my testing has been done with Uruguay, from 1836; Using generously altered market stockpiles and money (someone stole 1500 cement during testing)

First thing that i did, was set up a level 3 glass factory with 3 clerks and 3 craftsmen in it. No railroads have been built, and the nation has 19 techs (the 14 starting techs + all 5 RR techs.) No techs are researched/recieved during testing.

At the start the IP is at 19, due to the techs.
After building and staffing, the level 3 factory is at 71.6% efficiency, providing 17.18 IP. The status screen records an IP score of 36.
July 8, 1838, staff levels are:
craftsmen 4066, 3686, 389, clerks 12337, 7197, 7168.
In the mean time, Level 1 RR has been ordered in all 3 provinces. If, as suggested, railroads have no indirect effect on IP's via factory efficiency, when they are complete the IP score should be 46.

July 9, level 1 railroad completes in a non-factory province (factory province goes to 41.67 efficiency). This is expected to provide an increase of 3.3 IP thru the direct increase for railroads.
Factory effciency increases to 74.6%, and the IP score increases to 40, an increase of 4 rather than 3 (tho this could be down to rounding.)
30 July, pop sizes remain unchanged, and a second RR completes, also in a non-factory province (factory province to 43.3%)
Factory Efficiency increases to 77.6%. IP score increases to 44.
5 August, pop sizes have increased slightly, but there is no change in factory efficiency or IP score. The final RR, in the factory province, completes, raising the factory infrastructure to 50%, and the factory effciency to 89.5%.
IP raises to 50.

So, in summary, increasing RR levels by 1 increased IP by 14 not by 10. All scores recorded have also been checked against suggested formulas, and the formula still works.
Efficiency as per page 11 * 8 * level.

(after the railroads i calculated the IP score as so:
19: techs
10: Railroads level 1
21.48: Factory, level 3, efficiency 89.5%)


also, as per personal experience and vickywiki, a 100k pop is just as efficient as a 50001 pop, and creates the same output level. No more, no less.

 

[november]

Your formula works in some instances but not all. In particular a level 1 glass factory at 100% produced 5 IPs, not the 8 expected by your formula. I've tested this numerous times.

It would be nice if the efficiency number given on page 11 could be plugged straight into the formula.

 

[unmerged(36402)]

would you be able to send me the save game that that is in?
as of yet i havent seen anything that makes me think page 11 figures cant be used...

 

[november]

would you be able to send me the save game that that is in?
as of yet i havent seen anything that makes me think page 11 figures cant be used...

as a matter of fact I do. where do you want me to send it?

In fact, reloading the save results in athe level 1 glass factory at 105.9% producing 4 IP.

 

[unmerged(29814)]

Strange, this formula has always worked for me.
Currently playing as Asante, VH/F, year is 1886.
All factories closed my Industrial Score is 92.
Only level 29 fabric factory open (102 POPs) my Industrial Score is 5109.
Factory is producing 21.63 fabric daily.
92+21.63*29*8=5110.