Indonesian Island Problems (and solutions)

[neondt]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever taken a look at this mod? I downloaded it mostly because I planned to play a malaccan sultanate in the near future and it looked like it made the region a lot more interesting. Haven't really done so and don't even know how historical it is tbh, but maybe it addresses some of your complaints.

I'm the author of that mod. The AoW patch gave us a great province layout to work with, but unfortunately it hasn't been populated with nations.



On historicity: When you read on Wikipedia etc. that a nation in the region (at least in this period) emerged on a certain date, what that almost always means is that it's the date at which it became a Sultanate. i.e. the date at which the local ruler converter to Islam. It is generally not the date at which the "savage" natives embraced civilisation and founded the first urban centers in the region. Palembang, for example, was a city of major regional importance. The Palembang Sultanate founded in 1659. But prior to that it was the capital of a major empire, then a pirate stronghold, then a Majapahit vassal-state, then an independent Hindu kingdom (this kingdom become "officially" independent from Majapahit some time around the game's start date, though had probably been de facto independent for a few decades prior). It certainly should not be "uncolonised" in 1444.

I've also used tags as placeholders. e.g. I see no reason to create a "Lamuri" tag for the kingdom that preceded Aceh and occupied the same territory.

 

[neondt]

My favorite nations to play is Malaya, and if Pdox adds in Phillipine states too with the decision to form the Phillipines that would be amazing.

Problem with forming the Philippines is that a nation formed by natives from that region probably wouldn't take the name of a Spanish monarch . I don't think there was any native name that referred to the entirety of the islands that could be used instead.

Seems an interesting mod, I think I might give it a try.

The only concern I have is that there will be very few European holdings of land in the Archipelago with less uncolonised provinces.

Well that'd be historical. In EU terms, the region came into European hands by a mix of outright conquests and offering protectorates. For the most part the Europeans were after the trade power there, so they only needed direct ownership of a few key ports so long as they could direct trade towards them through their native vassals.

 

[neondt]

Majapahit fell to dynastic quarrels and the rise of Islam among local rulers. Neither of these things can possibly happen to Majapahit in game. Other nations don't appear as a result from any succession problems because they have any cores. The only solution to the problem of ever stable nations is events. Events that might in Java's case, force conversion to Islam, because it will never happen in game. Events that might, create historical nations, because they will never appear ingame.

In short, the game cannot model situations that occurred in this region in real life. It is up to events to provide diversity to this region.

Here's what I did for Java in my mod:

• Added cores for Demak, Cirebon, Banten, and Mataram in 1444 so that breakup is possible
  
• Created a disaster that MAJ begins with in 1444 that causes internal instability (which I think is justified given that the rapid decline had already begun by 1444)
  
• Added events to convert provinces to Islam beginning around the historical date for widespread conversion. There is a decision to allow Malay countries with Sunni provinces to convert if Sunni is the dominant religion. It's not entirely unlike the Protestant Reformation in Europe.
  
• Bali and Blambangan are independent in 1444

The results after 100 years are pretty varied, which I think is a good thing. Sometimes MAJ holds together and eventually converts to Islam, sometimes Sunda dominates because MAJ can't deal with pretender rebels, sometimes Islamic separatists emerge and change the landscape completely, etc.

Also, I don't agree with the suggestion that diversity should be created by having new nations spring up in uncolonised land via event. That would be to imply that nobody of consequence was living there prior to the establishment of an Islamic Sultanate, which was not the case. I agree with TMIT that some of the suggestions made so far have been heavy-handed.