Indian Subcontinent DLC (just to stir things up)

[DominusNovus]

Not a 100% serious suggestion, but what would people think of a DLC that expanded the map to include the Indian subcontinent? I figure it should be a fun topic to discuss (give us something to do until we get info on the Republic DLC), so I'll start off with some pros and cons.

Pros:
- More stuff; more characters, more territory, more religions, more portraits, etc. etc.
- Indians had some form of feudal structure, at least as feudal as the Arabs, Turks, Byzantines, and other non-European groups of the time.
- The eastern edge of the map would now make a bit more sense, rather than cutting right through Persia.
- It'd give the Mongols someone else to attack.

Cons:
- More stuff, lots of programming.
- There'll need to be some solution to the absence of ports in the Indian Ocean.
- There'll need to be more ways to simulate distances between areas; Delhi should not be as able to interact with London as Constantinople is.
- Dilution of the focus of the game/only really directly improves gameplay for Persia/Mongols (of existing areas).

 

[Agrippa43]

Go Away

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Not a 100% serious suggestion, but what would people think of a DLC that expanded the map to include the Indian subcontinent? I figure it should be a fun topic to discuss (give us something to do until we get info on the Republic DLC), so I'll start off with some pros and cons.

Pros:
- More stuff; more characters, more territory, more religions, more portraits, etc. etc.
- Indians had some form of feudal structure, at least as feudal as the Arabs, Turks, Byzantines, and other non-European groups of the time.
- The eastern edge of the map would now make a bit more sense, rather than cutting right through Persia.
- It'd give the Mongols someone else to attack.

Cons:
- More stuff, lots of programming.
- There'll need to be some solution to the absence of ports in the Indian Ocean.
- There'll need to be more ways to simulate distances between areas; Delhi should not be as able to interact with London as Constantinople is.
- Dilution of the focus of the game/only really directly improves gameplay for Persia/Mongols (of existing areas).

No.

 

[DominusNovus]

Not a fan of thought experiments, are you guys?

 

[cybrxkhan]

I don't think it should be done unless if PI wants to do a world-wide version for CK3. First, the Indian subcontinent would mean several new religions would have to be added - Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and their various sects, along with necessary flavor and mechanics for those religions. This is not to mention if the map is extended to all of India, then Tibet and Xinjiang will also have to be added as well, meaning that a Khitan invasion in the 1100s will have to be put in, some way of simulating the Chinese dynasties and the Silk Road, and a whole load of other things - so it isn't as simple as the already complicated process of adding Indian character and province history, because extending the map any further east will require so much more than just that, and for this reason I can see why the developers put the end of the map where it is.

 

[Ithvan]

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?588964-Mod-Umbra-Spherae

 

[DominusNovus]

This is not to mention if the map is extended to all of India, then Tibet and Xinjiang will also have to be added as well, meaning that a Khitan invasion in the 1100s will have to be put in, some way of simulating the Chinese dynasties and the Silk Road, and a whole load of other things - so it isn't as simple as the already complicated process of adding Indian character and province history, because extending the map any further east will require so much more than just that, and for this reason I can see why the developers put the end of the map where it is.

Well, technically, you don't have to add anything north of India into the map, just because India was added in. But you're certainly right that it would be a huge undertaking. Perhaps even enough to warrant a 'proper' Expansion Pack. Even more importantly, a forum icon!

 

[cybrxkhan]

Well, technically, you don't have to add anything north of India into the map, just because India was added in. But you're certainly right that it would be a huge undertaking. Perhaps even enough to warrant a 'proper' Expansion Pack. Even more importantly, a forum icon!

True, you could leave a huge black hole north of India (and it'd be a huge one). But as you said, even ignoring that, it's going to be huge - as huge in terms of historical research as extending the timeline back a century or two or five (as some on the forum have requested), perhaps even more since finding information on the obscurer Indian dynasties will be pretty difficult. An Indian subcontinent DLC will have to be like 3-4 times SoI in terms of both content and price.

But maybe PI can think about it. Certainly the mechanics would work, or at least the historical situation in India is similar enough we can pretend they work.

 

[der Kriegsherr]

I don't think it should be done unless if PI wants to do a world-wide version for CK3.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought as far as my idea for a China-themed DLC was concerned.
That and the sheer amount of work/data that would have to be included for a India/China DLC: I couldn't see that running smoothly at all.

I think China should get an own Paradox game for the romance of three kingdoms era. It might actually be something which could sell well in China if we think of the popularity of that era in Chinese fiction.

Could it start in the pre-Qin era?
If so, put me on board for this idea.

 

[Guilu]

I'd rather have it isolated entirely from the rest of the map, ie you select whether you'd want to play in Europe or India at the beginning of the game and that save is locked to that region. But whatever you do, you still have the problem of the Chinese - the blobbest of them all. It would be interesting to include South-East Asia in the whole package, not necessarily with Japan but Indonesia and such.

 

[Jeltz]

I think China should get an own Paradox game for the romance of three kingdoms era. It might actually be something which could sell well in China if we think of the popularity of that era in Chinese fiction.

I have no idea if India should get an own game or be added to CK, but for now I think it would be too much work to add as DLC when there are smaller and more important DLCs in the pipline. Pagans and the Catholic church are both less work and more gain.

 

[Lorehead]

I’m tempted to say that China and India are so substantially different that each should really be its own game. They might work as DLC. I think India and the Mongol steppes work as regions off the map, from which events can fire that affect Europe. As DLC expands what you can play further and further south and east, though, it becomes increasingly artificial to pretend that some arbitrary line is the edge of the world. The more detail Paradox puts into trade, the more they have the potential to affect the parts of the map that the game focuses on. India might not have had much direct contact with Europe, but the Persians and Mongols had plenty of direct contact with both. And then the Mongols also had plenty of interaction with China, to say the least. And then they also had some with Japan, and China had more. What about Muslim traders in the Pacific? And then there’s already the fantasy scenario with flavor events about the Americas, or if that’s not something they want to follow up on, there were the real Viking colonies in Greenland and Vinland.

It would be possible to add them as placeholders; there might be a few big provinces on the map representing the eastern half of Asia, but they might not be fully fleshed-out. For example, you might be able to trade with them, or even ally them and have them spawn troops, but not play them or march troops into them. Although, if you’re playing the Mongols, even that could make sense. There wouldn’t have to be a hundred provinces in India with four or five “baronies” each, and even the bird’s-eye view of them that was (initially?) represented might be hidden by fog of war if you’re in Ireland.

I can definitely see the appeal of a game where the feudal Europeans, Muslims, Mongols, South Asians and Chinese all exist, all are playable with their own dynamics, and all interact with each other. It’s one direction I’d be happy to see Paradox take the concept.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

I guess it would cause too much processing in the CPU. Rather a standalone eastern asia game for the period.
China and India probabyl have enough people who would acually buy the game instead of pirating (don't start a discussion on this topic, not allowed!) it, so maybe Paradox' entry to the asian market ?
Though i guess its too risky and they better stay with what they know and do best.
Why did i actually post this here ? I don't know.

I haven't tried the Umbrae Sphaere mod mentioned above, but it's still work in progress as i understand.

 

[unmerged(480426)]

They have a lot of stuff to add at old continent, forget about India and other stuff..

 

[dorukdorucu]

We already have Indian merchants going around, represented by events. As for adding the actual subcontinent, it would be too much work. And would also need a EU3-ish terra incognita mechanic, making them gradually appear. For example, Persian's would know them at the start however Scottish would need certain events to get to know them.

 

[Darrigan]

I fully support this idea. It would also make the muslims more interesting to play, since they will also be able to expand east.
The Chinese should be let out, though. Just India, that's enough. But of course the other DLCs should be brought first (cardinals,...)!

And to all people whinig it's too much work: Let PI decide that. If they think it can be done (and is profitable, of course), they should be able to do it. If they think it can't, it can't.

 

[liamgamer55]

It's such a major change that it'd need a new standalone expansion aka new game (a bit like europa universalis rome or sengoku). I'd be up for a standalone game very similar to ck2 set in India or China or Japan though (obviously Japan isn't going to happen).

 

[Lord Finnish]

Too much work. Would require an entire expansion for it.

 

[Helios Ra]

I'm surprised by the opposition. I think it's a great idea. Europe should be brought up to standard first (theocracies, pagans, College of Cardinals, etc) but I see no reason why the map shouldn't move east, and I have total confidence in Paradox to make something work for India. China should be done separately if at all, but India is valid in my opinion. Islam had been involved in India for centuries after all. Terra Incognita would be a good idea to import. I{d love to see a Silk Road system laid out, especially with The Republic DLC coming out. Obviously you shouldn't have Indians or Spaniards taking each others lands, but that would be a balance issue.

 

[Dadarian]

I think that this would be cool. Concidering how importent Asian trade was to both the history of Europe and the wealth of the middle east and Byzantium