It is not a union tag but the event command "culture_group_union" is used to give it the same benefits for the germanic group as the germany tag has.
India question
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It is not a union tag but the event command "culture_group_union" is used to give it the same benefits for the germanic group as the germany tag has.
That's a shame, I don't think it should be. In fact I think it would be perfect if it wasn't.
Oh well. Thanks for clarifying.
That is a ridiculous oxymoron . I feel like I'm just getting opposing answers simply because people like being in opposition.
Your comparison to a Punjabi to a Tamil makes every bit as much sense as a the Milanese being compared to the Sicilians. Russians, Siberians, Ukrainian? I don't see anything less than your comparison being a complete parallel to this.
You seem to assume that the Hindu people just could've cared less about a unified nation in the gigantic sea of empires being built up around them.
Just because they got beaten up on significantly by the Islamic conquests doesn't mean the result couldn't have been prevented.
More like Norwegian versus Sicilians. Tamils and punjabis doesn't even speak a language from the same language family so linguistically they'd be a lot more different from eachother than even that (linguistically your sicilian has more in common with a punjabi person than a tamil would
obviously there's a lot more than language to culture though). Sure they are both hindus (many of the punjabis would convert to islam or sikhism during the games timeframe though) but even that's not that clear cut as there is significant differences inside the hindu religion as well.It should be noted that at the time there was no big religious conflict visible to the common people of India. Both muslim and hindu empires had muslims as well as hindus at all positions in society for the entire era (Aurangzeb did try to limit this, but partly due to this his empire crumbled quickly after his death). The muslim sultanates could never have existed had they tried to limit their administration to just foreigners. Trying to force convert a population that's many millions more than your own co-religionists would probably also not be a very good idea
Why would an afghan or turkoman be any more different to a tamil farmer than a bengalese person?
The fact that religious nationalists today try to make Vijayanagar or the Maratha empire out to be bulwarks against the muslim states doesn't make it so. Both were founded by former generals of muslim armies and both conquered and demanded tribute from their neighbors regardless of their state religion
Both also allied with muslims and hindus alike if it fitted their plans.Still I don't see how any of this would stop the existance of a pan-indian tag (as noted the game won't let you unify more than 2 culture groups though, but if one wants to one could change the cultural setup to match this). The mughal empire did come close even though it was muslim
. The biggest obstacle for such a big state would imho actually be more about administrative penetration than cultural or religious differences. The empire would have the biggest population on earth. That's an awefully big nation to rule in this era One thing that does speak for the existance of a pan-indian country is the actual geography. India is a subcontinent sealed of by mountain ranges. Those make very nice natural borders.
All I want is a goal for a Hindu nation, make your reason up in your head. Pointing out historical accuracy still fails to enthrall me.
It makes as much sense to me as releasing the Catholic Arab nation of Jerusalem with 1 province and no army to fend for itself, for no other reason than the owner of the province is a nice guy. Or any nation just wailing on the Vatican in the middle of all-catholic Europe is another wtf moment.
Kingdom of God? This is just game flavor, nothing historical...
It makes as much sense to me as releasing the Catholic Arab nation of Jerusalem with 1 province and no army to fend for itself, for no other reason than the owner of the province is a nice guy. Or any nation just wailing on the Vatican in the middle of all-catholic Europe is another wtf moment.
Kingdom of God? This is just game flavor, nothing historical...
I didn't write my previous post just for the sake of opposition, I wrote it because I wanted to point out that the concept of Indian nationality that you presented as similar to German, Italian and others, is false.
Like Trin Tragula said, a Punjabi and Tamil are completely different, linguistically and culturally. Trin Tragula's example of a Norwegian compared
to a Sicilian is a good one.
The various Indian kingdoms didn't work for a united India anymore than the various European kingdoms did. Sure, there was a concept of India, just like in Europe there was a concept of Christendom. But this in no way shape or form meant that there were movements for a united India, or any kind of idea that there was even such a thing as an 'Indian' in the sense that was created from British colonialism and 19th/20th century nationalism.
If they hadn't been conquered my Muslims it doesn't mean that India would have united itself either. Rather, it would have been just as divided, probably more so since no Muslims would mean no Mughal Empire. You'd have a bunch of Hindu kingdoms, ranging from Rajput princes in the North to Marathis in central India to Vijayanagar in the south.
Multiversal said:
If a Hindu nation conquered all of India I could certainly see them proclaim themselves "Emperor of India", in whatever script/language you want to use, and in turn change the name of their realm. In EU terms, this nation shouldn't be a union tag though. That's why I brought up the HRE earlier as an example, since I thought it wasn't a union tag country.
It's even historical, with the Mauryas and Guptas. They faced plenty of cultural opposition themselves, too.
Wrt the HRE, remember that it was the HREoGN, it was explicitly German, especially in the game's timeframe. Think of it as an alternate Germany.
Trin Tragula is not pointing out historical accuracy. He very strongly holds a certain political view, and he is choosing his words very carefully to try to convince you of it. I could argue back line-by-line, but this isn't the place, I'm sure you're not interested, and neither he nor I are going to change our minds based on anything either of us writes.
It's hard to figure out goals for the Hindu nations existing in 1399 because, historically, none of them expanded their territories much from 1399 (the Marathas do, later, but they form from revolt). You could make Benares/Varanasi province give a missionary boost like Jerusalem and Mecca do. You could modify Mughal's "Taj Mahal" mission so that Hindu empires could qualify for it (although it's a rather boring mission IMO.) There were Hindu dynasties that had ruled most of India before the EU3 period: the Mauryan and Gupta empires. You could make a decision to change into one of them. You could also expand into the Hindu areas of southeast Asia.
Had I said it in the 1960s it would've been a political view but by now I don't think you can find much literature that says anything else (if you do please recommend it though as I've literally not been able to find an opposing view apart from among the anonymous editors of wikipedia, who provide few sources for their arguments). I'm not saying everyone's life was all good and nice though though, Indian farmers were notoriously oppressed both by caste and taxation systems, just that it didn't matter much if your state head was hindu or muslim.
Enough on that though!
Also I'd like to note that I never said that a pan-indian hindu nation was impossible at all. In fact I gave specific advise on how to create such both technically and historical justifications for it. I just stated that hindu nationalism is something from another era
It would seem to me that if you want to build a nation around a hindu identity per se all hindu areas should be included not just the indian ones.
EDIT:
I also kind of object to being described as chosing my words carefully to voice a very specific political view. On what would you base that? Seems like an unwarranted personal attack to me (especially as I never chose my words very carefully). I know virtually nothing about indian politics and as far as I know I haven't even discussed politics on these boards at all.
Feel free to point out that I'm wrong if you think I am. Don't try to discredit me without saying anything about the matter at hand though. If the discussion is for another thread (which it very well might be) then I don't suppose it's very warranted to throw around insults either?
Enough on that though!
Also I'd like to note that I never said that a pan-indian hindu nation was impossible at all. In fact I gave specific advise on how to create such both technically and historical justifications for it. I just stated that hindu nationalism is something from another era
It would seem to me that if you want to build a nation around a hindu identity per se all hindu areas should be included not just the indian ones.
EDIT:
I also kind of object to being described as chosing my words carefully to voice a very specific political view. On what would you base that? Seems like an unwarranted personal attack to me (especially as I never chose my words very carefully
). I know virtually nothing about indian politics and as far as I know I haven't even discussed politics on these boards at all.Feel free to point out that I'm wrong if you think I am. Don't try to discredit me without saying anything about the matter at hand though. If the discussion is for another thread (which it very well might be) then I don't suppose it's very warranted to throw around insults either?
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What version are you playing? I didn't have much trouble allying with Orissa and Raj early on.
All it really takes is following the missions that are constantly granting cores, if you can weaken Deccan right from the get-go they'll just be a punching bag every time a new mission arises. Not to mention once you annex your vassals you're making a ton of cash.
The southern tip of India is virtually no other nation on the planet's concern once you clear out the competition.
I've never actually played Vijayanagar, but I've played Gondwana quite a bit. Just don't wait around for Deccan to make friends. They will dow one of their neighbors early on. Grab a couple allies and carve them up. Do not let them build a big stack and you will be fine.
Ah, OK. I usually centralize at start so I have to whack rebels, then I go for one of my cores on the tip. Those can wait, I guess. The mission I usually get at the start is "save the people in Raichur Doab", giving me a CB on Deccan. I guess I should take advantage of it first.
I just did some research and never realized they officially changed the name to Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, as you wrote (I honestly wasn't sure what GN stood for until I did the research). If they thought it important enough and viewed themselves as German in that sense to officially change the name to that then I suppose having the union tag for the HRE isn't unrealistic. Certainly not more so than Scottish culture being in the same culture group as English and have GB be the union tag for them.