India or Spice Islands

[ChildeR]

I think he means conquering a province and putting it at 75% autonomy as opposed to leaving it in AI hands but yanking out most of the trade value, based on what he said.

If autonomy decreased trade value, that would make sense.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If autonomy decreased trade value, that would make sense.

I'm just trying to interpret what he said. I think it stems from misunderstanding goods produced vs production efficiency, the latter which IS affected by LA of course, but that doesn't hurt trade value.

 

[ChildeR]

I'm just trying to interpret what he said. I think it stems from misunderstanding goods produced vs production efficiency, the latter which IS affected by LA of course, but that doesn't hurt trade value.

Yeah, maybe you are right.

 

[Redwallzyl]

well controlling all the tradepower from Indonesia and skipping India i'm making tons.

 

[bbqftw]

Only reason to conquer provinces overseas is to gain trade power. You get almost nothing from those provinces via taxes etc due to autonomy. Bearing this in mind conquering much of India is pointless and counter productive (they produce more goods than you do).

This is only true if you are a merchant republic, and even then this effect can be counteracted by manufactories (which are worth it from a money making standpoint if you can get the trade value back to an ened node). Also, if you're in a position where you can attack India and redirect trade to Europe you shouldn't be getting much income from tax at all.

Goods produced is not affected by autonomy, only production efficiency is. Production efficiency affects production income but does not affect trade value.

Ideal way to maximize trade income is to take all shoreline provinces in a rich trade zone (so all inland provinces get trade company bonus), then force-feed the countries inland so much money they build manufactories. Since you took all the shoreline, the nations can't spam light ships.

 

[Halaberiel]

How is adding a province you own to a trade company bad for trade value?

If you meant leaving the province unconquered for the trade company bonus to goods produced, that's just something like 20%, while getting the production would approximately double your income from that province. Also, it leaves some trade power on the table, which will be used to collect/steer against you.

The latter. Although actually it's not that great if you're not a merchant republic, forgot about that as I usually play republics if I care about trade It's more that the theoretical maximum is higher if they own the province rather than you. Of course if they have no cash (due to you stealing all their trade rofl) and don't build manufactories while you do, then it's better if you conquer it yourself. Manufactories will ofc always trump trade company bonuses. Late game you probably have the MP points to do that I guess.

If I look at the provinces in India that I own in a Portugal game, every one of them has higher production than trade value. This is in the 17th century. Later on production income will automatically rise even more, while trade value will not. All in all trade is a more significant source of income due to all the steered trade, but production is not nearly as useless as taxation, accounting for over 10x the monthly income.

As an example, playing as Hansa in 1700 my production income is 141, my trade income is 1900. That's why I say it doesn't matter, it is so low in comparison. Yea tax sucks even more, only 20 per month lol. Trade income does increase btw, significantly, as they build more manufactories.

This is only true if you are a merchant republic, and even then this effect can be counteracted by manufactories (which are worth it from a money making standpoint if you can get the trade value back to an ened node). Also, if you're in a position where you can attack India and redirect trade to Europe you shouldn't be getting much income from tax at all.

Goods produced is not affected by autonomy, only production efficiency is. Production efficiency affects production income but does not affect trade value.

Ideal way to maximize trade income is to take all shoreline provinces in a rich trade zone (so all inland provinces get trade company bonus), then force-feed the countries inland so much money they build manufactories. Since you took all the shoreline, the nations can't spam light ships.

Yea this is true although not sure you need to take all the shoreline, those nations don't tend to have many ships anyway. I guess it depends on your naval force limits, especially with India you can get huge trade power spamming the Gulf.

 

[bbqftw]

With regards to trade power, its more important to suppress Kilwa, because if you let them get a lightship presence leeching in Zanzibar, they will take a rather outsized cut, and in the 1700s that node easily sees 500+ ducats of trade value flowing through. This combined with their gold income makes them very wealthy, and they will construct trade buildings, and the nasty cycle goes on.

Indian states are less of a pressing concern, as you're right, you can flatten them trade power-wise by propagation from Gulf of Aden since you'll propagate to all 3 main Indian nodes.

Trade value >> production especially as a merchant republic. My late 1750s Hansa game is about - 40 tax, 120 tariff, 370 production, 4500 trade. That said I think hitting ridiculous trade incomes is more about manipulating the European map particularly to significantly hurt my competition (for example, mass-subsidizing Navarra, a Bordeaux home node country, and helping them conquer all the COTs in Sevilla node. While they collect there, they won't steer trade there, so Ivory Coast and Caribbean competition is non-existent).