Incredible Japanese AI

[Assault Korps]

I'm having this game where I played as Com China. I altered the save-game file to get them out of the alliance with n-china. Then, as I should've predicted (without me in the CH bloc), Japan blew through nat-chin and their allies. Japan actually started taking territories around my border, sealing me off from the prey -- I'm already thinking this is incredible AI at this point. I hit China when I still had a window of attack and swept through almost to the Clique. Japan then STOPPED ATTACKING CHINA, like they were LETTING ME HAVE IT. This strategy suddenly made sense when the Clique hit me all across my front with fresh infantry. Japan just let me get pushed back, then took my former captured territories. If Japan was being played by a human, I'd think this was pretty damn good strategy, but the fact that it's AI just blows my mind.

 

[fredgiblet]

If it was doing it because it was smart I'd be impressed. Dollars to donuts it's doing it because it was confused instead.

 

[Didz]

Probably, but one of the things that make this game interesting is trying to rationalise what the AI is doing.

 

[markkur]

Yeah or guess what "mood" it is in this particular game. Half-witted, ultra-ambitious or totally out-to-lunch.

 

[Assault Korps]

I thought it was great they stopped driving into China, but then I could've used some help when I was getting my ass handed to my by the Clique. I've not a clue what would happen if we were allied or in a faction. I know a lot of people hate the AI, especially when they're trying to do a combined operation with a computer country. It sure as hell makes the game entertaining.

 

[Didz]

I've been trying to work out if the Theatre Menu has any practical value in control Allied AI behaviour. But as far as I can tell it doesn't do anything, it just looks like it ought to.

 

[Assault Korps]

My Chinese game gave me the impression the AI watches you and can be influenced by your actions.

 

[Didz]

I'm trying to determine if there is any intellegence behind the AI's use of diplomacy at the moment. At first it seemed pretty random, then I thought I saw a logic emerging. But as far as I can tell there is no consistent strategy, it seems to be quite reactive in what it choses to target. At first Germany and Britain seemed to be deliberately targetting those nations that were close to joining the opposing faction, and I figured it must be some sort of pre-set priroity. Then quite recently (1938) the pattern seems to have changed and they are competing directly for influence over specific countries e.g. Britain and Japan for Siam, Germany and Soviets for Persia; Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, Britain and Germany for Sweden. Still not sure if this is pre-programmed behaviour or intelligent targetting.

 

[Assault Korps]

It is undoubtedly at least partially random. Like any good alternate history simulator, HOE3 gives you a different roll every game. I use the automatic trading because it's much better at keeping me supplied than I ever will be. I produce extra supplies and a couple diplomacy points to give it something to work with.

 

[markkur]

It sure as hell makes the game entertaining.

I enjoy the A.I. very much generally but there's a few aspects that are horrible...one is the cell/partisan boondoggle. I've had two games playing as an Axis-minor when Germany threw Barbarossa at Polish rebels. After a lot of hard work, for me that is frustration...defined.

 

[Didz]

What seems to be happening in my game at the moment is a sort of pairing up and face-off arrangement between rival factions.

Up until 1938 the diplomacy seemed pretty random. Germany was flipping between influencing Belgium; Sweden and Norway. Britain was occasionally trying to influence Portugal or South Africa, and Japan wasn't bothering with diplomacy at all.

Then after the Second Sino-Japanese War ended in early 1938, everything suddenly became much more focussed and seems more intelligent. Japan immediately started trying into convince Siam to join the Axis, and Britain stepped in to counter their influence with it's own diplomats. Japan is losing that contest but is still keeping up the pressure.

At the same time Germany switched it's focus and began targeting Persia; Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia, which at the time were drifting towards the Comintern. I've given up trying to keep Saudi Arabia drifting towards the Comintern as even if they joined they are surrounded by Allied and Axis puppets and I'd never be able to protect them. But I really wanted Persia and Afghanistan to join me as a buffer along my southern border. So, I'm keeping my diplomats in those countries even though they are losing the hearts and minds battle against the Germans (+14 to +7). I'm kind of hoping the Germans will give up and withdraw their missions, but so far it's been three months and they're still in there.

The other big face-off is in Romania, which has been drifting towards the Allies for months, and suddenly Germany decided to intervene and send a diplomatic mission to talk some sense into them. But that was immediately countered by a British mission and at the moment Romania is still heading for the Allies.

So, it doesn't look random to me at the moment, in fact, it seems quite intelligent. Although it could just be a coincidence.

 

[markkur]

So, it doesn't look random to me at the moment, in fact, it seems quite intelligent. Although it could just be a coincidence.

I'd guess it is 'mostly' how the A.I. was planned. Don't forget "threat" impacts a lot. i.e As you stated, Romania does drift towards the Allies and the first time I played the game and saw that I thought wth? "If" the game fires normally the RM-pact will hand Bessarabia to the Soviets and that reverses Romania's drift. Apparently, the new & terrible stance with the Soviets makes the Axis look a lot better than the Allies.

In my game where the Czechs said no and the RM-pact did not trigger, Romania continued to drift towards the Allies. Germany's influence was not strong enough to override Britain's so Romania would probably never join...I had to tag-switch to get Romania into the Axis.

 

[Didz]

Well that doesn't sound random to me?

If the game is assessing things like threat for each country and then targetting diplomatic missions based on drift, or scripted plot lines, then it's not what I call random.

In the latest diplomatic reshuffle in my game Japan has given up its losing battle with Britain over the hearts and minds of Siam, and switched its effort to Communist China. Bit of an odd discision except that Communist China was drifting towards the axis eanyway, and it would lengthen the Axis border with Mongolia if it joined the Pact.

This also happens to coincide with the historic date when Germany began trying to negotiate a five way Anti-Soviet Pact with Britain-France-Italy-&-Japan. So, it looks like AI might be scripted to switch targets towards influencing Soviet neighbour states from August 1938

 

[markkur]

Well that doesn't sound random to me?

I agree. Guessing again but most A.I.s even ones not trying to replicate anything employ scripts for reasons, <imo> usually a quik-fix. But this game is trying to follow RL example so it makes great sense to craft the game with results or reasons in mind.

This also happens to coincide with the historic date when Germany began trying to negotiate a five way Anti-Soviet Pact with Britain-France-Italy-&-Japan. So, it looks like AI might be scripted to switch targets towards influencing Soviet neighbour states from August 1938

Diplomacy I've not explored much but again if I wanted a true result then, if I could, I would insert stuff like that too.

I doubt there are many spots for random; the only one that comes to mind is Germany not being given Czechoslovakia. Partisan cells seem random but I can't think of anything else.

 

[Assault Korps]

Japan was influencing me (com china), even while they were invading the chinese bloc. I was supposed to be an unbreakable ally of nat china, but I changed the save-game file to get out of the alliance and be a free agent. That makes it seem random, because obviously I would've been in the chinese bloc Japan was currently invading.

 

[Didz]

Communist China was an ally of Nationalist China?

I thought they were opposing sides in a civil war?

They were certainly not allied to each other in my game. Japan invaded Shanxii, Nationalist China and Yunnan and Communist China just stood on the sidelines and watched them burn.

 

[Assault Korps]

I'm playing HOE3 vanilla--no expansions. I don't know why they're allied. I think com china pretty much drove nat china into the sea historically. It seems really stupid you're forced to be allied if you want to play one of them. They must've fixed that in the expansions, and obviously I can hack the sg file in my version.

 

[Didz]

Ah! That might be the difference, as I'm using the FTH expansion now.

 

[Sloeberjong]

I'm playing HOE3 vanilla--no expansions. I don't know why they're allied. I think com china pretty much drove nat china into the sea historically. It seems really stupid you're forced to be allied if you want to play one of them. They must've fixed that in the expansions, and obviously I can hack the sg file in my version.

I stongly advice you to use all the expansions. They fix a lot of absolutely broken stuff. The AI in HOI3 isn't exactly supersmart...it Sounds more like a fluke than anything else...

 

[fredgiblet]

Yeah, I look through the feature notes on the wiki for the expansions and it's like "How would you play without that?"