Increasing Man Power from Conquered Lands

[War Emblem]

I am playing a current game as Svea Rike (Fascist Sweden) and we've had good success taking Norway, Finland and most of Great Britain (Germany took the upper most part of Scotland - so I have all the population centers of GB). However, I am really hampered by manpower limitations as I enter 1943. I have about 600K men in the army, another 500K manpower available with losses of 110K. I have all the NF tree techs that increase recruitment like Militarism and Svea Youth and I'm under service by requirement. Sweden had 1 million men under arms durning WW2 so the HOI4 numbers are actually really accurate. However, as we know Sweden was neutral. I have access to a lot more population. My National Unity is 90% and I am 100% Fascist. It seems to me that I should be getting a LOT more recruits from Norway and Finland than I am. OK - I get that maybe it might be tough to get a lot from GB, they would be really sore about losing their Empire/Island and I'd likely have to start a pro-fascist recruiting drive. But my fellow Scandinavian nations seem like they would be much more willing to join the winning side.

The inability to access more manpower from conquered nations really hinders my options. I have to garrison GB because it gets a lot of areas of unrest. And the USA is in the war. I have an odd situation where I am at war with Western Allies but not involved in the German-Soviet War. I have to keep troops in Finland in case the Soviets decide to DoW on me. Now I could commit to fighting the Soviets and join the German war against them but I am sure as soon as I do that the Americans are going to show up in Ireland. Germany is doing such a terrible job (and would have lost Berlin by now if not for a marvelous game by Romania who has taken a huge part of central/south Russia) and Japan, while taking Pearl Harbor has lost all lands in China so they aren't going to do much. So I can't really just sit on my gains with the US entering the war and throwing their weight somewhere.

Now I know Svea Rike is not supposed to decide the war. However, it seems reasonable that when a country has high unity and a highly unified government it would be able to access more of the manpower from conquered lands, especially those adjacent that share a regional culture. I've taken Superior Firepower so I have horded all my men as best as I could so I don't think there is anything in game I could do to preserve my manpower more. That's the other reason I don't really want to attack Russia, I don't have the men to send into that meat grinder.

 

[Opanashc]

Change the occupation laws. With the gentlest occupation law, you can get 30% of recruitable population the original owner would under same circumstances.

 

[War Emblem]

Right, but that is 30% of the incoming manpower. Already your incoming manpower is so small it barely covers anything. If it were 30% of the potential manpower of the areas that would be a good start.

 

[Secret Master]

At least for Germany and France, manpower from occupied territory is about right. I haven't tested it elsewhere, but you really shouldn't be able to get tons of manpower from occupied areas.

If you want the manpower, turn the territory into puppets/integrated puppets.

 

[War Emblem]

I'm never going to be able to puppet them though without the USA being defeated and the war ending. Germany is never going to invade the USA and Japan can't even take China. So it would fall to Svea Rike to invade the US, a fairly preposterous concept.

 

[Dalwin]

Right, but that is 30% of the incoming manpower. Already your incoming manpower is so small it barely covers anything. If it were 30% of the potential manpower of the areas that would be a good start.

Right so since they are not core territory the base is 2%. 30% of 2% is 0.6%. This is as it was designed. There is no way in the vanilla game to change that. There are mods that increase the number, but of course those will not be ironman or achievement compatible if you care about those things.

 

[Meglok]

Right, but that is 30% of the incoming manpower. Already your incoming manpower is so small it barely covers anything. If it were 30% of the potential manpower of the areas that would be a good start.

Yep, you are much better off going harshest and getting all the resources and factories.

At least for Germany and France, manpower from occupied territory is about right. I haven't tested it elsewhere, but you really shouldn't be able to get tons of manpower from occupied areas.

If you want the manpower, turn the territory into puppets/integrated puppets.

Which is impossible to do until the Allies capitulate if they were members of the alliance. And the Allies will guarantee much faster in 1.3.3. The only real option in that area is taking out the Soviets, not an easy task with the 1.3.3 German ai as your ally.

Barring acquiring puppets, your only hope is taking advantage of land doctrines and focuses that improve manpower. Both the mass assault mobile warfare doctrines have manpower bonuses in their lines that are nice for minors. As a minor with limited manpower you have to make sure your troops are equipped well, don't suffer needless attrition, use hospital support, and do not make stupid attacks. Meaning you micro and not let the ai battle planner waste your men.

 

[Tempestra]

it seems reasonable that when a country has high unity and a highly unified government it would be able to access more of the manpower from conquered lands

Seems unreasonable to me.

The 90% National Unity doesn't mean people in conquered territories love you.

 

[Gyrvendal]

The only serious obstacle to world conquest as a minor nation is manpower. This is the only limitation you have to overcome, so I don't think removing it would be a good idea. If anything, the factories you get from occupied/conquered territory should be reduced instead, but that would screw the German AI even more so let's not do that for now.

Anyway if you have Tfv it is super easy to overcome the manpower limitations with puppets. In your next Sweden game, you could conquer Netherlands early on and puppet the Dutch East Indies : Hello infinite manpower....

In your current game, you should be able to defeat the Soviets and puppet them, or even invade the USA, it's not that hard. Just make a large tank army and you should win with minimal casualties.

 

[Premu]

Also - if you conquer enough factories, you can easily afford to draft more of your own citizens. Who cares that your factories produce less stuff if you have so many of those from the occupied land?

 

[Gorton]

It would make sense to me that norwegians and danish people would be more likely to work under a swedish occupation than say a french one.

Same with canadians under australian occupation rather than say, german.

iirc germany did recruit a lot of support even from occupied nations.

 

[Logist]

It could be based on party popularity before capitulation. For example, if fascism had 20% popularity in Finland before they capitulated, then you could get access to 20% of their manpower. Germany should get more manpower from fascist leaning Austria then democratic Belgium.

 

[Secret Master]

Which is impossible to do until the Allies capitulate if they were members of the alliance. And the Allies will guarantee much faster in 1.3.3. The only real option in that area is taking out the Soviets, not an easy task with the 1.3.3 German ai as your ally.

Well, under 1.3.3. you have a good point. I just figured he would have at least gotten 1 of the Scandinavian countries before guarantees started flying.

 

[amalric de g.]

It would make sense to me that norwegians and danish people would be more likely to work under a swedish occupation than say a french one.

Same with canadians under australian occupation rather than say, german.

iirc germany did recruit a lot of support even from occupied nations.

I´m not a Canadian, but i think they would not be to keen, to die for their new Australian overlords.
Germany recruited roughly 1 Million men from occupied countries, not all served as soldiers. HOI IV represents this with their numbers very well.

It could be based on party popularity before capitulation. For example, if fascism had 20% popularity in Finland before they capitulated, then you could get access to 20% of their manpower. Germany should get more manpower from fascist leaning Austria then democratic Belgium.

Germany gets full access to the Austrian manpower and the Sudetenland via the NFs, so i didn´t see your point. As i wrote in my answer to Gorton, Paradox has the numbers spot on.
I understand your position, but buffing minors even more is not the right way. What do you think happens, if germany (or insert any country here) gets 10 - 20% of the male population of every conquered country?
If i want to cheese the game, as germany, i would start pushing fascism in the Netherlands and Indonesia, then conquering the Netherlands in 1936 and annex Indonesia and the Netherlands, with my limitless manpower (germany has 65 million, or with Austria and Sudetenland 76 million / Netherlands 10 million and Indonesia 100 million = 11 million possible soldiers, without the german manpower) WC is then a cake walk.

 

[War Emblem]

For me, when I play I like gaming scenarios that I feel are historically realistic. So I am never going to DoW on the Netherlands in 36 (I can't anyway, it takes a while to go Fascist). Same thing with going after Norway or Finland early - Takes a while to go Fascist and Sweden has Neutrality on them. So really neither of those options are open.

I'm not looking for World Conquest - I'm looking to have a winning war as part of the Axis. I've realistically reached the limit of what I can do for Germany having taken Scandinavia and the UK. It still doesn't look like they can beat the Soviets. I have 3 armies right now plus a 'homeguard' that is for garrisons. One army is dug in along the Northern Finland riverline. Another army is in lower Finland by Leningrad. My third army just took GB. The Soviets drove to the Oder but Germany held them there, again helped a ton by Romania who is having an EPIC game. I have no doubt the Soviets are weakened but there is a lot of vastness to get swallowed up in around Leningrad if I DoW on the Soviets. And the Americans are coming.

In any event, it's a good play through. I'll see how it goes, maybe it just isn't possible to effect the war as a minor without ahistorical work arounds. One other thing I have noticed when you aren't playing Japan/Germany/Italy the Allies are really tough to slay. They are like Dracula. I mean who is going to take out Australia? Certainly not my fellow Axis members. So it would fall to Svea Rike to take out America, NZ, SA, AUS and colonial Indies! That's a tall task even for Lisbeth Salander and her countrymen.

 

[Dalwin]

If you try it again, I think your best bet is to make your first Scandinavian conquest a puppet, assuming it is early enough that they don't join the Allies. Even though none of those countries has a very large population either, it will still give you more than you had. Once the big war starts you pretty much have to settle for gaining factories and resources. You are never going to gain a lot of outside population.

 

[fredos386]

For me, when I play I like gaming scenarios that I feel are historically realistic. So I am never going to DoW on the Netherlands in 36 (I can't anyway, it takes a while to go Fascist). Same thing with going after Norway or Finland early - Takes a while to go Fascist and Sweden has Neutrality on them. So really neither of those options are open.

I'm not looking for World Conquest - I'm looking to have a winning war as part of the Axis. I've realistically reached the limit of what I can do for Germany having taken Scandinavia and the UK. It still doesn't look like they can beat the Soviets. I have 3 armies right now plus a 'homeguard' that is for garrisons. One army is dug in along the Northern Finland riverline. Another army is in lower Finland by Leningrad. My third army just took GB. The Soviets drove to the Oder but Germany held them there, again helped a ton by Romania who is having an EPIC game. I have no doubt the Soviets are weakened but there is a lot of vastness to get swallowed up in around Leningrad if I DoW on the Soviets. And the Americans are coming.

In any event, it's a good play through. I'll see how it goes, maybe it just isn't possible to effect the war as a minor without ahistorical work arounds. One other thing I have noticed when you aren't playing Japan/Germany/Italy the Allies are really tough to slay. They are like Dracula. I mean who is going to take out Australia? Certainly not my fellow Axis members. So it would fall to Svea Rike to take out America, NZ, SA, AUS and colonial Indies! That's a tall task even for Lisbeth Salander and her countrymen.

You said you were on service by requirement, go all adult serve and scrap the barrel. If the war with allies not enough to do that then join war against soviet and then go to scrap the barrell. You will double your available manpower and will have enough to beat soviets on your own. BUT once that is done you'll be short on manpower for everything else. But i did it, i saw others do it, svea rike can easily take USSR especially when they are weakened by germany.

 

[Meglok]

If you try it again, I think your best bet is to make your first Scandinavian conquest a puppet, assuming it is early enough that they don't join the Allies. Even though none of those countries has a very large population either, it will still give you more than you had. Once the big war starts you pretty much have to settle for gaining factories and resources. You are never going to gain a lot of outside population.

I suspect that problem now in 1.3.3 with minors going a reaving is by the time they have flipped to fascism or communism the Allied AI will be able to guarantee anyone they generate a war goal on. The changes to war goal generation did not enhance minor play at all.

 

[Secret Master]

The changes to war goal generation did not enhance minor play at all.

Probably for the best, actually.

 

[Dalwin]

The changes to war goal generation did not enhance minor play at all.

Unless of course you are Holland and wanting to start your campaign with the conquest of Germany. In that case the changes are right up your alley. Karmic revenge for all the Dutch Gambits that have been run.