Increasing duchy historicality and revisiting their borders

[Riddermark]

which brings to mind a question i wanted ot ask long ago:

when exactly does France becomes France ? because i saw many maps that just say - Kingdom fo the Franks..

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Short answer: France is France, because Byzantium is Byzantium.

Long answer: Names that are easily recognized to mean the things they represent are much more desirable in a game, which has wide range of users and most of whom are not expert historians, than names that can be slightly more correct, but are only recognized by historians knowledged in the period.

Disclaimer: I don't know when they started to use France instead of kingdom of Franks, but even if it was in 1400, the above would still be true.

 

[Riddermark]

yes yes relax i was just interested to know the historical background i have changed it to Franks in my game

 

[unmerged(27913)]

France or Franks it's the same thing. It's like changing Germany to Germans.

Also as I know France became dominant somewhere in the 13th century which would mean it was used throuout at least 3/5ths of the game.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Actually I'm fully relaxed really, just serious about it.

Now, is there anything wrong with the rest of the map as it is?

 

[Riddermark]

Actually I'm fully relaxed really, just serious about it.

heeh just kiddin i know you must be gettin gray hair when u see a new post by me - i apologize fo that

 

[Calgacus]

yes yes relax i was just interested to know the historical background i have changed it to Franks in my game

If you wanna know about the concept of Francia, check out this awesome webpage:

http://www.friesian.com/francia.htm

Early medieval kingships are primarily ethnically based, so it is more common to take the title King of the Xs (rex Xorum) than King of Xia (rex Xi(a)e) until the later 12th and (esp.) the 13th centuries, when that changed a little. But to use of "Franks" just for the French would just be silly without doing it to the English, Scots, Lombards ("Italians"), etc.

 

[Riddermark]

But to use of "Franks" just for the French would just be silly without doing it to the English, Scots, Lombards ("Italians"), etc.

agreed but i changed it just cuz i saw a map and sounded better for me than France

thanks for the website will check it out now ;D

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Coa of the Ungvar

It is the COA of the town wof Uzhhorod in current day Ukraine. Uzhhored was the capital of the county of Ungvar

 

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Uzhhorod = Ungvár, just the Ukrainean name for it.

That looks like a nice CoA, but is it old or new?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The site where it is from has no information, but it doesn't look medieval to me. So maybe we have to pick a coa of one of the counties that make up the duchy.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

That CoA you posted is actually being used by Bereg already, so I suppose it's all ok for Ungvár.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Maybe I should install CK on my PC at work so I can check the things I am saying :rofl:

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I'd need translations for these duchy names, in French, German, Spanish and Italian:

Albany;?;Albany;?;?
Moray;?;Moray;?;?
The Isles;?;Die Inseln;?;? (translating "the Isles" part of "Lord of the Isles")
Northumberland;?;Northumberland;?;?
Hereford;?;Hereford;?;?
Buckingham;?;Buckingham;?;?
Bedford;?;Bedford;?;?
Canterbury;?;Canterbury;?;?
Somerset;?;Somerset;?;?
Holland;?;Holland;?;?
Gelre;?;Geldern;?;?
Valois;?;Valois;?;?
Berry;?;Berry;?;?
Aquitaine;?;Aquitanien;?;?
Gascony;Gascogne;Gascogne;?;?
Beja;?;Beja;?;?
Granada;?;Granada;?;?
Léon;?;Léon;?;?
Baden;?;Baden;?;?
Brunswick;?;Braunschweig;?;?
Modena;?;Modena;?;?
Pisa;?;Pisa;?;?
Salerno;?;Salerno;?;?
Ancona;?;Ancona;?;?
Ferrara;?;Ferrara;?;?
Østlandet;?;Østlandet;?;?
Vestlandet;?;Vestlandet;?;?
Pomeralia;?;Pommerellen;?;?
Kujawy;?;Kujawien;?;?
Greater Poland;?;Großpolen;?;?
Lesser Poland;?;Kleinpolen;?;?
Nyitra;?;Neutra;?;?
Estzergom;?;Gran;?;?
Transylvania;?;Siebenbürgen;?;?
Ungvár;?;Uschhorod;?;?
Carinthia;?;Kärnten;?;?
Rashka;?;Raskha;?;?
Dioclea;?;Dioclea;?;?
Turnovo;?;Tarnowo;?;?
Karvuna;?;Karvuna;?;?
Epirus;?;Epirus;?;?
Achaea;?;Achaea;?;?
Crete;Créte;Kreta;Creta;Creta
Athens;?;Athen;?;?
Macedonia;?;Makedonien;?;?
Thrace;?;Thrakien;?;?
Trebizond;?;Trapezunt;?;?
Coloneia;?;Koloneia;?;?
Armeniacon;?;Armeniakon;?;?
Paphlagonia;?;Paphlagonien;?;?
Nicaea;?;Nikaea;?;?
Thracesia;?;Thrakesien;?;?
Anatolia;?;Anatolien;?;?
Charsianon;?;Karsianon;?;?
Ostrobothnia;?;Ostrobothnien;?;?
Tavastia;?;Tavastien;?;?
Vitebsk;?;Witebsk;?;?
Volhynia;?;Wolhynien;?;?
Chernigov;?;Chernigow;?;?
Novgorod-Seversk;?;Nowgorod-Seversk;?;?
Turov-Pinsk;?;Turov-Pinsk;?;?
Moscow;?;Moskau;?;?
Vladimir-Suzdal;?;Wladimir-Susdal;?;?
Merv;?;Merv;?;?
Sarkel;?;Sarkel;?;?
Bulgar;?;Bulgar;?;?
Itil;?;Itil;?;?
Bukhara;?;Bukhara;?;?
Khorasan;?;Khorasan;?;?
Sistan;?;Sistan;?;?
Fars;?;Fars;?;?
Hamadan;?;Hamadan;?;?
Kermanshah;?;Kermanshah;?;?
Abkhazia;?;Abkhazien;?;?
Kartli;?;Kartli;?;?
Damman,?;Damman;?;?
Mosul;?;Mosul;?;?
Anbar;?;Anbar;?;?
Arabia;?;Arabien;?;?
Aleppo;?;Aleppo;?;?
Jaffa-Ascalon;?;Jaffa-Askalon;?;?
Jerusalem;?;Jerusalem;?;?
Nobatia;?;Nobatien;?;?
Tripolitania;?;Tripolitanien;?;?
Kabylia;?;Kabylien;?;?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Is there or has there been any discussion of the non-Christian Duchy set up? Although it's obviously, less important and less historically based then the Christian Duchy set up, but I think we could move around some provinces and rename a few to make it more plausible.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Is there or has there been any discussion of the non-Christian Duchy set up? Although it's obviously, less important and less historically based then the Christian Duchy set up, but I think we could move around some provinces and rename a few to make it more plausible.

Of course there was, it was just swooped over quickly at some point, but there were significant changes. Go back a few pages and you'll find Persia changes and Middle East changes.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

The English name of MOSC should be Muscovy...Moscow is a city.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

The English name of MOSC should be Muscovy...Moscow is a city.

I suppose, though directly translated from Russian it's Grand Duchy / Principality of Moscow, no?

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Ok, I found the one about Persia, but I'm using the old, old set up for reference because I have an easy to use map I would personally have Khozistan, Hendjan and Avhaz should be in a Duchy called Arabistan or Khuzestan; Fars, Laristan, Shiraz and Hormuz would be in a Duchy called Hormuz; Kerman, Darab and Sistan would be in a Duchy called Kerman; Mazandaran should also have Tabiristan(Mazandaran, Dailam, Rayy and in addition Tabitistan); Esafan (Esafan and Yazd) should have Lut and rename the old Lut province Khorastan and add Merv to the Duchy. Luristan (which should be renamed Lorestan) is fine and Qom needs to lose Tabiristan. This is really based on geography, historic, geographic and ethnic similiarities.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

That's quite different from how we went, you can see how we ended up with from first post. Do you think the setup in first post is wholly sucky then?