Increasing duchy historicality and revisiting their borders

[unmerged(27913)]

You will never find Duchy/Principality of Varna too

As far as I know Varna and Karvuna(Kavarna) are the same thing.

As for Tarnovo/Turnovo I would prefer to spell it like I just did. Trnovo is fine with me but I am afraid some other non-slavic and especially romance-germanic speaking people will have some tongue-breaking.

 

[Riddermark]

Thrace = English spelling and all Greek-origin names on this map transliterate "c" instead of "k"

I always wondered why its Mortal Kombat, but i know now

well the explanation you gave me just undermines your theory of homogenous use of english anyway no matter

 

[Riddermark]

As far as I know Varna and Karvuna(Kavarna) are the same thing.

well man dont get offended but you then really dont know a lot

Kavarna is 40 km away from Varna. Im going there tomorrow for a concert
kavarna is modern name for Karvuna.

yeah all you english speaking dudes incorporate the nice letter of 'Ъ' and live would be better for all the ppl in the world

 

[unmerged(21937)]

well the explanation you gave me just undermines your theory of homogenous use of english anyway no matter

Thrace is the English name for it. Besides, like I said, the map isn't using homogenously English or Latin names. Sometimes there is only local name available, like for most Theme-based duchies in Byzantium or some duchies in Hungary. Sometimes English or Latin name is obscure and nobody knows what it means. It's case-by-case basis really.

So, Tyrnovo, Turnovo, Tarnovo or Trnovo? I'm personally finding the second one most pleasing to the eye and my (ancient) home atlas has it as Turnovo too.

 

[Riddermark]

let it be Turnovo then.

And please rename Vidin

proof:
At the time of the mediaeval Bulgarian nation-state, it was known as Budin (until the beginning of the 11th century) and as Bdin (after that) and was a seat of a military and administrative region. In the second half of the 13th century, it became the main city of the Vidin Principality, and later, of the Vidin Kingdom.

http://vidin.iwebland.com/municipalityeng/inform/frame/muni.htm

Clearly Bdin, or Budin is the english translation too of the name used back then.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Second half of 13th century = 1250-1300, which is almost half of CK era and even your source calls it "Vidin principality", which essentially is what the duchy represents, not city of Budin / Vidin.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

8) Utrecht renamed Gelre, more historically appropriate

9) Frisia from Gelre to Holland, more historically appropriate

And is there a uncreatable title Archbishop of Utrecht ?
Have you forgotten that one ?

If it gets to crowded in the low countries I understand. And if you need the tag somewhere else, better use it for a real duchy then for a noncreatable title.

 

[Calgacus]

Well, my vote's for Trnovo. That's what Dimitri Obolensky uses, and who am I to argue with the demi-god of medieval slavic history?!?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

well man dont get offended but you then really dont know a lot

Kavarna is 40 km away from Varna. Im going there tomorrow for a concert
kavarna is modern name for Karvuna.

Which means they were in the same principality. It seems that the devs were fooled as I was. They mistaken Varna and Kavarna....you must admit it's pretty easy to fool yourself if you're not from there.

I am for Tarnovo, but Turnovo is good as well.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

And is there a uncreatable title Archbishop of Utrecht ?
Have you forgotten that one ?

If it gets to crowded in the low countries I understand. And if you need the tag somewhere else, better use it for a real duchy then for a noncreatable title.

I put it into the tag list, but I didn't want to put it that change list post, since it deals with changes to creatable setup, just like first post presents only creatable setup.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I put it into the tag list, but I didn't want to put it that change list post, since it deals with changes to creatable setup, just like first post presents only creatable setup.

I didn't read the tag list Only the changes.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about this one: Wurttemberg to Swabia, it's part of the Swabian core lands after all and Swabia won't get too big now that Baden is there too.

 

[Riddermark]

At the time of the mediaeval Bulgarian nation-state, it was known as Budin (until the beginning of the 11th century) and as Bdin (after that)..

begining of 11th century, Bdin AFTER that.. UNTIL after end of 13 th..

so basicly we have 1066+ = Budin
1187 = Bdin
second half of 13th century = 1350 and afterwards, so theres a good chance that in 1337 it was still called Bdin/Budin

so i say it must be renamed

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Yes but I think it's best to keep it as Vidin...it is know today as such...Budin will only confuse people.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Second half of 13th century = 1250-1300. This is correct English.

It's rather curious thing though, since for example in Finnish the normal expression is "1300-luvulla", which means "on 14th century". I presume this similiar in Bulgarian, which creates your confusion there.

Why Vidin is so unacceptable name for it?

 

[Riddermark]

Why Vidin is so unacceptable name for it?

Ok you tell me why Bdin is so unnaceptable to you? I dont find a single reason.. for 2/3 of the scenarios it should be that name - and i mean Duchy name not county.

the difference between Bdin and Vidin is very small, so with a very little effort you get better historical truthfulness

i guess im just too pedantic for little things, you have already noticed that no doubt from all my previous posts

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Reasons for keeping Vidin:

1) It was that before.
2) It's correct for about half the period.
3) It's tag is VIDI
4) Vidin is easier for most of us to spell than Bdin
5) It's also even now Vidin, so people better know what are being talked about
6) It's principality of Vidin in most sources too

 

[Riddermark]

1) Sofia was also capital of Bulgaria from the start of EU2
2) less than half
3) cant help you there
4) wow..
5) -
6) = 2)

jsut to comment on your points, i cant say you convince me even the least, but since i cant do nothing about it ..

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Well, ultimately it's a consensus matter, since some people want to see it as Vidin (like Finellach) and other as Bdin (you). Since less people want it as Bdin than as Vidin, it's sensible to have it as Vidin.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Rddermark Bdin is native name, if we give native name to Vidin then we must give natives names to all other duchies and even kingdoms...and you must admit that would look stupid.