Increased coring cost must be removed/replaced

[Martin_Mortyry]

Let's talk about hostile core creation for a moment. It's an annoying mechanic, having only one purpose - to make some countries less tempting targets. The irony of this modifier is, countries with it as national tradition/idea are those that got conquered by foreign powers: Wallachia, Georgia, Circassia, Bohemia, Armenia... this makes no sense whatsoever!
The question is, what should be put into national ideas of these countries instead of ICC? Personally, I'd change the way this idea works. This idea is usually there to portray how hard it was for the aggressor to pacify the locals, so maybe instead of increasing core creation cost, this idea should increase unrest or years of separatism in provinces conquered by the enemy? It would still be an annoying idea, but at least in a reasonable way.

I decided to write this thread in the main forum instead of suggestion because it is more of a plead, rather than suggestion. I also want as many people as possible to see this thread, because of nature of these forums.

 

[petertel123]

I still remember the days when Hungary had it and it remained in exactly the same shape troughout the entire game. As you say, the countries that should have it least like hungary and georgia are the ones who got it while countries that werent conquered like switzerland dont have it.


God I hate increased coring costs

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

I still remember the days when Hungary had it and it remained in exactly the same shape troughout the entire game.

Haha, yeah, I remember that too. God, was I happy when they got rid of it!

As you say, the countries that should have it least like hungary and georgia are the ones who got it while countries that werent conquered like switzerland dont have it.

Yeah, that's probably because it's supposed to represent the struggle the foreign powers had with the locals. Well, if that's really the case, the idea should increase the unrest, not coring cost. That's a prime example of idea being implemented badly.

 

[solidprice]

It really should be unrest.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

We'll see how Mare Nostrum's new state mechanic effects this.

If places like Wallachia, Georgia, Circassia, Bohemia, and Armenia end up being frequently conquered but rarely cored into fully administered states, causing them to go undeveloped except during those sweet and all too brief years of self rule, then I'll be satisfied.

 

[grommile]

If places like Wallachia, Georgia, Circassia, Bohemia, and Armenia end up being frequently conquered but rarely cored into fully administered states, causing them to go undeveloped except during those sweet and all too brief years of self rule, then I'll be satisfied.

Small observation: Bohemia and Armenia have HCC as Ambition or seventh Idea, not Tradition.

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

Small observation: Bohemia and Armenia have HCC as Ambition or seventh Idea, not Tradition.

So if anyone can get their conquest and cores in before they finish their third idea group, or if they nations get wiped out before they get their third idea group finished, they'll have no additional difficulty incorporating them, and only mid and late game conquerors run into trouble?

That sounds like an interesting dynamic to watch happen to other people.

In fact, with enough Bohemian or Armenian cores in your empire, it might be worthwhile to keep those nations in existence as a vassal just so they'd get the HCC effect on any province with their cores in them.

 

[Canute VII]

Add +2 unrest in provinces with cores of live nations, +1 unrest in provinces with cores of dead nations. Unrest would last until the cores are lost. This would make "revoke core" in peace treaty significant. It would also make provinces with a lot of cores much more rebellious (balkans anyone?).

 

[grommile]

Add +2 unrest in provinces with cores of live nations, +1 unrest in provinces with cores of dead nations. Unrest would last until the cores are lost. This would make "revoke core" in peace treaty significant.

Have fun trying to revoke Shirvan's cores on Azerbaijani provinces, or Bohemia's cores on Czech provinces.

Sure, you might be able to do something about their expansionist cores, but their home cores are another matter.

 

[misiceman]

Have fun trying to revoke Shirvan's cores on Azerbaijani provinces, or Bohemia's cores on Czech provinces.

Sure, you might be able to do something about their expansionist cores, but their home cores are another matter.

Culture convert the provinces.

 

[Demetrios]

Let's talk about hostile core creation for a moment. It's an annoying mechanic, having only one purpose - to make some countries less tempting targets. The irony of this modifier is, countries with it as national tradition/idea are those that got conquered by foreign powers: Wallachia, Georgia, Circassia, Bohemia, Armenia... this makes no sense whatsoever!
The question is, what should be put into national ideas of these countries instead of ICC? Personally, I'd change the way this idea works. This idea is usually there to portray how hard it was for the aggressor to pacify the locals, so maybe instead of increasing core creation cost, this idea should increase unrest or years of separatism in provinces conquered by the enemy? It would still be an annoying idea, but at least in a reasonable way.

I decided to write this thread in the main forum instead of suggestion because it is more of a plead, rather than suggestion. I also want as many people as possible to see this thread, because of nature of these forums.

Wallachia and the Circassians were still extant at the end of the game period, and Georgia was extant until a couple of decades before the end.

 

[grommile]

Culture convert the provinces.

Which you can only do once you've cored them yourself, at which point you have suffered the penalty attached to HCC and no longer actually care.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

Increased coring costs makes me wanna drown puppies.

 

[parats]

Which you can only do once you've cored them yourself, at which point you have suffered the penalty attached to HCC and no longer actually care.

Try it again.

 

[DerMaulwurf]

It really should be unrest.

Add +2 unrest in provinces with cores of live nations, +1 unrest in provinces with cores of dead nations. Unrest would last until the cores are lost. This would make "revoke core" in peace treaty significant. It would also make provinces with a lot of cores much more rebellious (balkans anyone?).

As much as I dislike HCC, at least it does something. Even if that is being annoying.

What do the Ottomans (or even a player) care about some little unrest? Even if a rebellion breaks out, it will be crushed with minimal effort.

 

[mursolini]

Have fun trying to revoke Shirvan's cores on Azerbaijani provinces, or Bohemia's cores on Czech provinces.

Sure, you might be able to do something about their expansionist cores, but their home cores are another matter.

Home cores should be ridiculously hard to destroy anyway.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

Wallachia and the Circassians were still extant at the end of the game period

Wallachia was an Ottoman vassal with so little autonomy they could just be incorporated to TUR. Circassians have been in a war with Russians since 1760s', they would easily get conquered in a few months in-game and I think the character of this war was rather close to that of Ottoman-Albanian war: and this type of fighting is more or less simulated with increased unrest in conquered provinces.

Georgia was extant until a couple of decades before the end.

Yes, and was a vassal most of the time. Not saying it doesn't mean they weren't extant but... what kind of existence is it? It's like considering congress Poland extant.

Add +2 unrest in provinces with cores of live nations, +1 unrest in provinces with cores of dead nations. Unrest would last until the cores are lost. This would make "revoke core" in peace treaty significant. It would also make provinces with a lot of cores much more rebellious (balkans anyone?).

IMO +2 unrest is a little bit too low, it won't really affect the gameplay. If Paradox listen to this thread, they will implement this idea with numbers they think are the most reasonable.

 

[noobeless]

The thing about Europa Universalis 4 is its the game of blob . either you blob or get eaten by a blob.

If you want increased coring cost reworked, you have to think about what it is abstractly represent. The population of (inset province/provinces here) don't like you have conquered them, so it will take more effort and resources to make them accept your "rightfully right" to rule them, the increased coring cost penalty work well with that in mind. because the people will resist integration because of different reasons. (Nationalism, Resist-full nobility and so on).

The increased coring cost wont go away when you core it either. it will stay until the core of the nation that give the increased coring cost is gone. in other word.

I think it is just a weak penalty you can give to your invader/invaders, because once you have cored it. Its just another province in your nation, maybe another culture or religion. But after its your core you can just convert or culture convert the province with no penalties.

 

[JustMormegil]

I've tested Hostile Core Creation Cost replacement with + Defensiveness/Attrition in my mod and you know, it works fine. It is hard to conquer these countries, but it isn't annoying any more.

 

[victimizer]

Increased coring cost should be removed, but so should the traditions that reduce coring costs. Hard lands like the Caucasus and the Maghreb should be reworked with terrain modifiers that give prolonged nationalism (+ 30 years and more) and reduced missionary effect. This is to depict the mountain hideouts and desert places where resistance by the natives continues.

Traditions like "adaptability" and "millets" should instead increase the amount of negative adm points you can accumulate through coring. The standard limit would be -500, while with these ideas you could take it down to like -2000. You would cripple yourself administratively for a while after you've expanded a lot and having negative monarch powers in any category should increase corruption because your court is too busy handling the back log of issues rather than chasing badly behaving officials.