Increase Council Power faction = a load of bs

[DreadLindwyrm]

I read the forum, looking at all the dislike for Conclave and the "mixed" result of Conclave in Steam. There is no f***ing way this is subjective. I think it is the only CK2 DLC in history to get such a low result in Steam.

It's all subjective. Of course, it being *your* opinion affects whether you think it's subjective or not.

A lot of the negative reviews appear to be "I turned it on, didn't understand the new mechanic, and the games broken!", with the poster not even having tried to get to grips with the changes. Then there are the ones that wanted to vote neutrally, couldn't, and voted negatively because they didn't want to approve of the changes (going in line with a neutral review of anything is bad), and the "overall I liked it, but....) posts that still have a downvote attached.

Then there are the actively wrong posts "I won one war, and now everyone's in a coalition against me!!!!". Well, no - the maximum threat you can get from one war is 50% - at which point other religions *may* join together in a coalition/defensive pact, but it'll fall apart a month or two later, as your threat dips below 50%. If you've had several other wars, or kept going without regard to your threat level *then* you will get a globe spanning coalition to stop you. Or... "you can't do anything with a favour if you're not on the council!" - well, one of the things you can do is use that favour (if it's on your liege) to get onto the council.

 

[Zarine]

But yes, title granting is a vital power to get back. Can you bribe some councillors to get it, or at least let you dump the excess titles?

In my case I checked and this is the situation :

I have a 6 guy council :
A - the still happy guy, he's fine and I can work on him
B - Malcontent - own a favor to C
C - Malcontent - own a favor to D
D - Malcontent - own a favor to B
E - Malcontent - don't accept to be bribe
F - Malcontent - don't accept to be bribe

And somehow, making B happy (granting the title to him) doesn't make D follow his vote. Same goes for C and D.
So maybe a bug here, not sure... considering the little information available in game about what and why regarding council vote it's quite unclear.

Like why on hell are they Malcontent?
The only thing I can think off is that I took their troops for quite long (-35 opinion) for a war we won and for which they voted yes, all of them.
I feel like on this the council member shouldn't even get those levies opinion hits : they knew it would happen when they voted for it...
And it's not like we lost, we won against "pagans" ! And nothing changed much between the war declaration and this title issue.


Basically my main issue with the DLC is the fact that we went back to the old days where the information about why is not available anymore, and this hurt so much.
Like "how much threat will I generate after this war?", don't know at all, you will discover it one you peace out and get crushed by everyone.

 

[es333]

It's all subjective. Of course, it being *your* opinion affects whether you think it's subjective or not.

So the opinion about the Conclave DLC is subjective and the subjectiveness of that opinion is also subjective? Wtf is this? Inception?

There's nothing subjective about this being the lowest-rated and most (badly) talked about DLC.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

In my case I checked and this is the situation :

I have a 6 guy council :
A - the still happy guy, he's fine and I can work on him
B - Malcontent - own a favor to C
C - Malcontent - own a favor to D
D - Malcontent - own a favor to B
E - Malcontent - don't accept to be bribe
F - Malcontent - don't accept to be bribe

And somehow, making B happy (granting the title to him) doesn't make D follow his vote. Same goes for C and D.
So maybe a bug here, not sure... considering the little information available in game about what and why regarding council vote it's quite unclear.

Like why on hell are they Malcontent?
The only thing I can think off is that I took their troops for quite long (-35 opinion) for a war we won and for which they voted yes, all of them.
I feel like on this the council member shouldn't even get those levies opinion hits : they knew it would happen when they voted for it...
And it's not like we lost, we won against "pagans" ! And nothing changed much between the war declaration and this title issue.


Basically my main issue with the DLC is the fact that we went back to the old days where the information about why is not available anymore, and this hurt so much.
Like "how much threat will I generate after this war?", don't know at all, you will discover it one you peace out and get crushed by everyone.

They could well be malcontent because of the 35 point penalty for having their troops raised for a long time. When it wears down, they might come back on board. I'm not sure, but with a fully malcontent council they will vote no, just because you want to do something. You might have to risk firing them and appointing a new council of "yes men".


How much threat seems to be covered by relative realm sizes, but it isn't completely transparent. On the other hand if it was, people would be abusing the fact that they could see it to remain always *just* below the threshold.

 

[Zsrai]

I read the forum, looking at all the dislike for Conclave and the "mixed" result of Conclave in Steam. There is no f***ing way this is subjective. I think it is the only CK2 DLC in history to get such a low result in Steam.

So you read the forum, see the vocal minority bitching, then don't play the actual game and form your opinion based on that? Give me a break. Your opinion is completely mis- and un-informed. At least educate yourself on the mechanics and try them before parroting the raging minority.

There's nothing subjective about this being the lowest-rated and most (badly) talked about DLC.

Yes there is. The fact that you can you look at the reviews and see that they are low isn't subjective, but the reviews themselves and the knee-jerk reactions people were having that caused these negative reviews most certainly ARE. Just actually READ them. There are plenty just like have been quoted in this thread, and even on this page by DreadLindwyrm.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

So the opinion about the Conclave DLC is subjective and the subjectiveness of that opinion is also subjective? Wtf is this? Inception?

There's nothing subjective about this being the lowest-rated and most (badly) talked about DLC.

Yes, opinions about Conclave are subjective. By their very nature.

The reasons for it being low rated are largely subjective ones - people don't like something, and rated it because of that. There are only a couple of even vaguely objective ones, and even then they're tinged with subjective views - yes, painting the world is harder. That's objective. Whether that's good (and would be an upvote) or bad (and would be a downvote) is subjective. I've been through repeatedly why there are likely to be more downvotes than upvotes - firstly you can't neutral vote, and most people in that circumstance will lean to voting negatively; secondly people who hate something are more likely to post than people who like it, but don't necessary love it; and thirdly, even someone who loves it is less likely to post a review than someone who hates it and feels they've wasted their money - the person who loves it is more likely to be playing it than complaining about it.

 

[es333]

So you read the forum, see the vocal minority bitching, then don't play the actual game and form your opinion based on that? Give me a break. Your opinion is completely mis- and un-informed. At least educate yourself on the mechanics and try them before parroting the raging minority.



Yes there is. The fact that you can you look at the reviews and see that they are low isn't subjective, but the reviews themselves and the knee-jerk reactions people were having that caused these negative reviews most certainly ARE. Just actually READ them. There are plenty just like have been quoted in this thread, and even on this page by DreadLindwyrm.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/this-game-is-sadly-dead-to-me.922115/

You are the vocal minority, the Conclave DLC is shit and I don't need to spend 15 euros to find out. I read about shattered retreat and coalitions on the forums, tried out the game and it was mostly just like it was written over here. I'm not going to buy the DLC to make my CK2 gaming experience even worse, as the reaction to this DLC is horrific. Maybe I'll get it in a year when all the bugs and flawed mechanics have been fixed.

 

[es333]

the person who loves it is more likely to be playing it than complaining about it.

I just played CK2 for 8 hours straight and here I am.

 

[Zsrai]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/this-game-is-sadly-dead-to-me.922115/

You are the vocal minority, the Conclave DLC is shit and I don't need to spend 15 euros to find out. I read about shattered retreat and coalitions on the forums, tried out the game and it was mostly just like it was written over here. I'm not going to buy the DLC to make my CK2 gaming experience even worse, as the reaction to this DLC is horrific. Maybe I'll get it in a year when all the bugs and flawed mechanics have been fixed.

So basically you're being a clown. Got it. No real point in discussing this further with you since you're uninformed (having not bothered to play the DLC) and only going off of posts affirming what you already believe instead of being critical and looking at both sides (or for yourself).

Enjoy your Conclave DLC on the Steam Winter Sale, I suppose.

 

[Secret Master]

Like why on hell are they Malcontent?

Low opinion. Get his opinion up to +20 and he won't be a Malcontent anymore. (The threshold for Malcontent is lower than that, but I can't remember what it actually is right now.)

People with low opinions (even if they are not Malcontent low) will generally refuse bribes for favors. The AI is not always stupid; it knows that you are basically buying the opportunity to do something in your own interests. Courtiers and vassals that have reasons to be irritated with you will not take the bait.

Do keep in mind that favors traded for council support give 36 months of votes. It's not a bribe for a single law change. It's also a bribe that will get you, the liege, a law change, a revocation spree, an imprisonment spree, a DOW spree, and enforcing realm peace. Vassals who have any reason at all to be the least bit suspicious of your behavior should not be accepting bribes when on the council.

After all, with a bribed council, I can even start going after people on the council despite the "No" votes...

 

[es333]

So basically you're being a clown. Got it. No real point in discussing this further with you since you're uninformed (having not bothered to play the DLC) and only going off of posts affirming what you already believe instead of being critical and looking at both sides (or for yourself).

I'm not a clown, you're the clown if you call people who disagree with you, clowns. My suggestions(d_Livonia from k_Lithuania into k_Finland and c_Liivimaa from Latgallian Romuva to Estonian Suomenusko) in the past have literally been implemented by Paradox and the changes have been done inside CK2 after I posted several threads in the bug forum with massive proof backing my suggestion and also people supporting me. I'm definitely quite worried about the best situation for CK2. I don't play mods, I just want the vanilla game to be as good as possible.

If a clown's suggestions have been implemented in CK2, then what are you? I have been here for 9 years and this is the first time when anyone even remotely implies that I am a clown. Maybe I should report your post?

Enjoy your Conclave DLC on the Steam Winter Sale, I suppose.

I don't buy games with mostly negative reviews, even during sales. I also tend to read 20+ reviews in the case the game (or DLC in this question) has "mixed" reviews. If Paradox manages to fix the bugs of Conclave for the next Winter Sale, I might buy it. I have never gotten a DLC right when it came out, I usually get it 8-12 months after release so I can enjoy a bug-free DLC with a better price.

 

[Iron Chariots]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/this-game-is-sadly-dead-to-me.922115/

You are the vocal minority, the Conclave DLC is shit and I don't need to spend 15 euros to find out. I read about shattered retreat and coalitions on the forums, tried out the game and it was mostly just like it was written over here. I'm not going to buy the DLC to make my CK2 gaming experience even worse, as the reaction to this DLC is horrific. Maybe I'll get it in a year when all the bugs and flawed mechanics have been fixed.

So, you're not going to buy the DLC because of two features that are in the patch? Whether you buy Conclave or not, you get shattered retreat and coalitions, what you get with Conclave are the council mechanics.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/this-game-is-sadly-dead-to-me.922115/

You are the vocal minority, the Conclave DLC is shit and I don't need to spend 15 euros to find out. I read about shattered retreat and coalitions on the forums, tried out the game and it was mostly just like it was written over here. I'm not going to buy the DLC to make my CK2 gaming experience even worse, as the reaction to this DLC is horrific. Maybe I'll get it in a year when all the bugs and flawed mechanics have been fixed.

Welp. Don't let the door hit you in the arse as you flounce out of the room.

Shattered retreat isn't a problem at all (at least in my subjective opinion), since I've usually (in 2.5.2) been able to chase down and destroy fleeing armies, even if it takes a few battles and involves chasing them around the map a bit. When I haven't, I've gone back to sieging provinces, waited for the fleeing army to come back, and smashed it to pieces, before then either chasing it down, or finishing sieging. A few rounds of that usually gives me enough warscore to win.

Coalitions (in my subjective opinion) haven't been an issue yet, since I'm rarely generating enough threat for them to be a problem. Admittedly, I'm not trying to form an empire from one county in 40 years, or actively trying to paint the whole world my colour in a couple of generations, so perhaps I'm not going to notice it hitting my playstyle.

I just played CK2 for 8 hours straight and here I am.

With Conclave and the patch? Ah wait, no - you said you haven't bought it.

Still, if you haven't figured out ways around the problems that shattered retreat and coalitions cause in eight hours of play, then I don't know what you've been doing. The biggest single gain of threat you can get (50%) burns off in less than one ruler's lifetime, and for all but a few months of that, you're not getting multi-faith coalitions against you - always provided you take some time between large conquests.

But then again, you won't take the word of someone who's had a positive experience of it over those who haven't will you?

 

[es333]

So, you're not going to buy the DLC because of two features that are in the patch? Whether you buy Conclave or not, you get shattered retreat and coalitions, what you get with Conclave are the council mechanics.

No, you misunderstood me.

Most people in the forum kept saying how coalitions and shattered retreat suck, I tried it our myself and it was true (well coalitions are okay in the 5.2 patch), shattered retreat is still quite bad in 5.2 and desperately needs to be fixed.

Why should I get Conclave if the reactions to it are even worse than to coalitions for instance? I trust what I read by long-time players.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I'm not a clown, you're the clown if you call people who disagree with you, clowns. My suggestions(d_Livonia from k_Lithuania into k_Finland and c_Liivimaa from Latgallian Romuva to Estonian Suomenusko) in the past have literally been implemented by Paradox and the changes have been done inside CK2 after I posted several threads in the bug forum with massive proof backing my suggestion and also people supporting me. I'm definitely quite worried about the best situation for CK2. I don't play mods, I just want the vanilla game to be as good as possible.

If a clown's suggestions have been implemented in CK2, then what are you? I have been here for 9 years and this is the first time when anyone even remotely implies that I am a clown. Maybe I should report your post?

Whilst you're at it, why not report your own where you've been equally offensive by calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fanboy", and dismissing them out of hand?

I don't buy games with mostly negative reviews, even during sales. I also tend to read 20+ reviews in the case the game (or DLC in this question) has "mixed" reviews. If Paradox manages to fix the bugs of Conclave for the next Winter Sale, I might buy it. I have never gotten a DLC right when it came out, I usually get it 8-12 months after release so I can enjoy a bug-free DLC with a better price.

What Conclave bugs are you experiencing? Considering that whatever bugs you might be experiencing *have* to be in the patch if you're not playing with it.

 

[es333]

With Conclave and the patch? Ah wait, no - you said you haven't bought it.

That's like buying a car that most people say, is shit, just to try it out yourself. Not trusting the reviews and opinions of people who have owned the car etc.

Now after your post, I'm going to buy the ONLY CK2 DLC in history that has more negative reviews than positive ones (in Steam) and which has gotten a big negative response in the forums which I have not witnessed (at least in the CK2 forum). Have you ever heard of logical thinking, using it can be fun, you should try it sometimes

 

[es333]

Whilst you're at it, why not report your own where you've been equally offensive by calling anyone who disagrees with you a "fanboy", and dismissing them out of hand?

Clown and fanboy are not comparable. Both of us know that.

What Conclave bugs are you experiencing? Considering that whatever bugs you might be experiencing *have* to be in the patch if you're not playing with it.

I'm talking about the Conclave bugs brought out in this thread : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...munity-issue-list.917246/page-4#post-20906407

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

No, you misunderstood me.

Most people in the forum kept saying how coalitions and shattered retreat suck, I tried it our myself and it was true (well coalitions are okay in the 5.2 patch), shattered retreat is still quite bad in 5.2 and desperately needs to be fixed.

Why should I get Conclave if the reactions to it are even worse than to coalitions for instance? I trust what I read by long-time players.

"Most people" [citation needed]

Again, my experience (however subjective) is that shattered retreat is fine. So, according to other posts I've seen, is the experience of several other players.

Of course, you're dismissing "long term" players by ignoring us, but hey...

That's like buying a car that most people say, is shit, just to try it out yourself. Not trusting the reviews and opinions of people who have owned the car etc.

Now after your post, I'm going to buy the ONLY CK2 DLC in history that has more negative reviews than positive ones (in Steam) and which has gotten a big negative response in the forums which I have not witnessed (at least in the CK2 forum). Have you ever heard of logical thinking, using it can be fun, you should try it sometimes

You're not even trying logic now. You're going "BUT I HEARD THIS FIRST!" and then sticking your fingers in your ears when people disagree and try to present their opinions that are different to those you've already seen.

Again though, shattered retreat and coalitions (the majority of the reasons for downvotes are **PATCH** material, not DLC. Now, admittedly if you don't want the patch features, you'll not be able to use the DLC, since you'll have to roll back. The fact remains though, that the DLC is not the problem here.

 

[es333]

"Most people" [citation needed]

Again, my experience (however subjective) is that shattered retreat is fine. So, according to other posts I've seen, is the experience of several other players.

Of course, you're dismissing "long term" players by ignoring us, but hey...



You're not even trying logic now. You're going "BUT I HEARD THIS FIRST!" and then sticking your fingers in your ears when people disagree and try to present their opinions that are different to those you've already seen.

Again though, shattered retreat and coalitions (the majority of the reasons for downvotes are **PATCH** material, not DLC. Now, admittedly if you don't want the patch features, you'll not be able to use the DLC, since you'll have to roll back. The fact remains though, that the DLC is not the problem here.

I usually buy my DLCs 8-12 months after the release, every time what I have read in the forums has been true. Why should it not be true this time? I have absolutely every DLC and downloadable content possible in CK2, except the newest Conclave release.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Clown and fanboy are not comparable. Both of us know that.

No, because the insults you throw around are never as bad as the ones you receive...

I'm talking about the Conclave bugs brought out in this thread : https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...munity-issue-list.917246/page-4#post-20906407

An awful lot of those aren't Conclave bugs. Some of them are even, from what I remember, deliberate design choices, or meant to mimic historical situations.

Some of the suggestions are mirrors of the things the EUIV board screamed about when they were introduced in that (buffing base standing troops - equivalent to giving everybody a free retinue unit).

Other suggested fixes would break more things than they fix.