Include lower titles?

[TheFeudalBavarian]

Another newbie question. If I want to grand a county to one of my courtiers, I have the option to "include lower titles".

So, when I grant him a county with lower titles, that includes all holdings within the county. That means he will get all the taxes of those holdings, correct?

If I grant him the same county without lower titles, does that mean I keep the holdings, and also will get all the taxes and levies from those holdings? Wouldn't I be his vassal with those holdings? Or are the bishops, mayors etc, just my vassals in that case and he only gets taxes from his own main holding castle?

Also, if I grant a duchy to one of my courtiers and I don't include lower titles, what happens to all the counties within the duchy and all its taxes and levies?

this is kinda confusing....

thanks!

 

[John Fist]

Let's say you're a king and you have a 2-county duchy you fully control that you'd like to give away. Duchies can only be granted to counts or higher, so you could give away county A to some landless bloke, then grant him the duchy already, while you still control county B (that is, if you keep 'include lower titles' unchecked). If you check include lower titles, your new Duke will also be granted county B. Note that vassals will gain a -25 opinion modifier per lower-tier title that you hold within their de jure territory (if you own a holding in their county, that's -25; if you own a county in their duchy, that's -25; if you fully control a duchy in their kingdom, that's -25)

 

[TheFeudalBavarian]

Let's say you're a king and you have a 2-county duchy you fully control that you'd like to give away. Duchies can only be granted to counts or higher, so you could give away county A to some landless bloke, then grant him the duchy already, while you still control county B (that is, if you keep 'include lower titles' unchecked). If you check include lower titles, your new Duke will also be granted county B. Note that vassals will gain a -25 opinion modifier per lower-tier title that you hold within their de jure territory (if you own a holding in their county, that's -25; if you own a county in their duchy, that's -25; if you fully control a duchy in their kingdom, that's -25)

So, are those negative opinion modifiers additive? Or is it just one time -25?

 

[John Fist]

So, are those negative opinion modifiers additive? Or is it just one time -25?

Additive; if you own 3 counties in their de jure duchy, you'll have -75 opinion in total. Scary stuff.
This also applies to having a vassal count controlling those counties (i.e. a direct vassal, not a vassal under another vassal)

 

[TheFeudalBavarian]

So, when I give away land, should I always click "include lower titles"? What is the purpose of the button??

 

[Yxklyx]

The effects of that button appear to have changed recently. It appears that if you grant someone a Duchy with that button off they still get the counts as vassals (but you may lose out on the opinion gain). The only time I don't use that button is if I have a demesne county I don't want to lose.

 

[Dunaden]

The "include lower titles" check box I usually only use when I've just won a Holy war or invasion and I have a ton of cities, temples, baronies and counties to hand out. Instead of individually appointing people to every holding, I check the "include lower titles" and just give out a county (or a duchy to an already landed character) and he receives the county as well as any other baronies, cities, and temples within the county that I currently own. The he can assign his own people to them. It just speeds up distributing titles after a major victory. Works same with Duchies and Kingdoms and the counties under them.

As mentioned above , if you don't check the box in that situation you keep everything below him that you personally own (if the titles are already owned by someone else, they will become his vassals automatically) and you owning land that is part of his de jure territory causes him to dislike you.

 

[majdavlk]

So, when I give away land, should I always click "include lower titles"? What is the purpose of the button??

I give them out after i have given out the counties duchies and kingdoms, i keep most of the barons in my realm as direct vassals, it heavily increases the tax i get out of them.

A lot of people say it is bot possible for a holding to not be in direct vassalage with their dejure liege, but that is not true, barons are vassals like any other, just unplayable and docile.

 

[TheFeudalBavarian]

I give them out after i have given out the counties duchies and kingdoms, i keep most of the barons in my realm as direct vassals, it heavily increases the tax i get out of them.

A lot of people say it is bot possible for a holding to not be in direct vassalage with their dejure liege, but that is not true, barons are vassals like any other, just unplayable and docile.

But don't you get a -20 opinion modifier with the vassal for each holding that you hold in his county?

 

[majdavlk]

But don't you get a -20 opinion modifier with the vassal for each holding that you hold in his county?

They hate the guy holding the titles, not me. And they dont even hate their direct liege if the title they "desire" is not the primary title of that direct vassal of mine.

Also i usually grant most of my spare counties to 1 nomadic vassal and his opinion of me does t matter all that much as he cant do anything anyway.