Incest marriages for all religions

[Knotz]

You can already seduce your siblings and have kids with them and get an opinion malus for it (I think?) would marriage really add anything substantial? And stop saying alliances, that doesn't even make sense they're already immediate family they'd be allies by default.

And if we're adding this (we're not) I wanna have gay marriage too.

 

[Arona]

You can already seduce your siblings and have kids with them and get an opinion malus for it (I think?) would marriage really add anything substantial? And stop saying alliances, that doesn't even make sense they're already immediate family they'd be allies by default.

And if we're adding this (we're not) I wanna have gay marriage too.

Realm statboost as spuse is that not substantial? common ambitions as dynasty? Even if they are family they have no common ambitions they are rivals and fight for power, but if they are marryied they they have common goals.

 

[SovereignGrave]

Gee, and everyone in here earlier was saying that was the one reason why it wouldn't be legitimate. So, which is it?

Even if you strongarm a priest into marrying you or find acorrupt one willing to do it doesn't change the fact that literally nobody is going to accept it as legitimate and all your kids are going to be bastards.

 

[Boodas]

*brings sister and a handful of guards to the local church, marches up to the priest* Marry us.
*refuse*
*draws sword, levels it at priest* Marry us.
...
*cleans sword* Bring the next priest in. No, don't remove the body, I want him to see it...


Sooner or later you'll find a priest who will do it. Will there be repurcussions? Abso-frickin'-lutely. Excommunication at the very least. Potential revolts. Pope might even anull it. Or try to, anyways. Depends on if anyone listens to him or not (yes, that is a variable state in medeival times). But right now, it's just a flat, hard-coded 'no'. And face it, that's not realistic.

Pretty sure that if you went around murdering all your priests until one agreed to marry you two, the Pope would excommunicate you. Your nobles would attempt to overthrow you due to insanity, and Lets not even get started on the mobs of pious angry peasants.

 

[Zorlond]

Even if you strongarm a priest into marrying you or find acorrupt one willing to do it doesn't change the fact that literally nobody is going to accept it as legitimate and all your kids are going to be bastards.

And if anyone says that to the lord's face, they get the same as the priests.

You'd be surprised how convincing that gets if you do it enough.

Pretty sure that if you went around murdering all your priests until one agreed to marry you two, the Pope would excommunicate you. Your nobles would attempt to overthrow you due to insanity, and Lets not even get started on the mobs of pious angry peasants.

Everything you just mentioned was in the second half of my post as outcomes, dude.

 

[Arona]

Pretty sure that if you went around murdering all your priests until one agreed to marry you two, the Pope would excommunicate you. Your nobles would attempt to overthrow you due to insanity, and Lets not even get started on the mobs of pious angry peasants.

woulnt it be fun and challenge to try to survive as tyrannical incestius bastard and abomination. Would be cool to see what pope and religios world will do against my 60k retinue? and 70k personal levys. I say if you are super power then you can do what you wish. Al world will hate you. but your mother-wife is your spymaster, what they can do. cant kill you, cant over power your military, just silence hatred

 

[Knotz]

Realm statboost as spuse is that not substantial? common ambitions as dynasty? Even if they are family they have no common ambitions they are rivals and fight for power, but if they are marryied they they have common goals.

No, the statboost isn't substantial considering you could marry someone not related to you with stats as good or better without the baggage of spitting on the Church/cultural mores in general.

And I'm pretty sure the a big, if not THE big motivating factor for marriage among the nobility in those days was the idea of cementing alliances through blood. If you're already related, by blood, to someone and you STILL feel the need marry them to make sure they're not a rival... yeah, no. That just makes no sense to me.

You mentioned low rationality earlier and sure, if one or both siblings were insane and lustful or something then sure why not. Have it fire as a special event or something but that really doesn't justify making incestuous marriages a thing for all religions just cuz.

 

[Zorlond]

And I'm pretty sure the a big, if not THE big motivating factor for marriage among the nobility in those days was the idea of cementing alliances through blood. If you're already related, by blood, to someone and you STILL feel the need marry them to make sure they're not a rival... yeah, no. That just makes no sense to me.

The reason behind incestuous marriages was to make it nigh-on impossible for the landed titles to exit the country and be insta-gobbled by some other power. If you recall, that was kinda one of the main reasons the HRE was such a flippin' mess. Keeping landed titles within the realm was also the primary motivator behind the Ancient Egyptian Dynasties (with a side-order of deity-hood to make the peasants accept it). It didn't work all the time (eventually the bloodline just clotted to extinction and had to be restarted), but it did work for Three Thousand Years, give or take.

 

[Zhetone]

why do you people want this so badly? Kind of disgusting

 

[Arona]

The reason behind incestuous marriages was to make it nigh-on impossible for the landed titles to exit the country and be insta-gobbled by some other power. If you recall, that was kinda one of the main reasons the HRE was such a flippin' mess. Keeping landed titles within the realm was also the primary motivator behind the Ancient Egyptian Dynasties (with a side-order of deity-hood to make the peasants accept it). It didn't work all the time (eventually the bloodline just clotted to extinction and had to be restarted), but it did work for Three Thousand Years, give or take.

Yeah i play custom empire, it huge and my living dynasty members are over 300, every, kingdom and duchy belongs to my dynasty members and i also want them to have a countys, but there comes problem, they will out inherit it, if their direct line gets killed off. And i again need to destabilise a realm by revoking them.

 

[Arona]

why do you people want this so badly? Kind of disgusting

reality rules, it not about incest, i can play zoroastrian if i want this or game of thrones valyrian. But i like reality effect and what chaos it can make thought religion, map and realm. Dont you want to pope grant invasion cb to other realm becouse you breaked church law, by marrying your sister

 

[DominusNovus]

Pretty sure that if you went around murdering all your priests until one agreed to marry you two, the Pope would excommunicate you. Your nobles would attempt to overthrow you due to insanity, and Lets not even get started on the mobs of pious angry peasants.

Not only that, but every Priest murdered probably ends up a Saint. Further discouraging further such shenanigans.

 

[Jurrak]

Why exactly is seducing your children/parents disallowed in the game anyway? I imagine it's to make it less exploitable, but I've never really looked into the reasons.

 

[RoverGrover]

You know,the only way I could ever see this working is if the game let you create a custom heresy. Which oddly enough is kind of an intriguing idea. Probably completely destroy the game but being able to hand pick some heresy religion standards would be pretty interesting.

 

[Rascar Capac]

What do you mean by not being born? Can you get unpregnant in the game?

I Think that he means that they were never born in the first Place, a.k.a. that women give fewer births than they should because some of them die of screen.

Pretty sure I've seen stillbirths. Message and event reading like "...little <InsertNameHere> never lived."

 

[SovereignGrave]

Why exactly is seducing your children/parents disallowed in the game anyway? I imagine it's to make it less exploitable, but I've never really looked into the reasons.

I imagine it's not something most people in their right minds would ever even conceive of doing. And I mean as in actual medieval nobles, not the players.

 

[Gamengervi]

Pretty sure I've seen stillbirths. Message and event reading like "...little <InsertNameHere> never lived."

I'm not sure because I don't remember seeing anything like that. Maybe you're right or maybe it's for children who died with the sickly trait. I wonder if the infant mortality rate will increase in the upcoming patch. Probably not.

 

[Zorlond]

I imagine it's not something most people in their right minds would ever even conceive of doing. And I mean as in actual medieval nobles, not the players.

Yeah that became a real problem later on...

"Dance? With her? By TOUCHING HER??? *hurk*"

 

[Tatterhood]

Pretty sure I've seen stillbirths. Message and event reading like "...little <InsertNameHere> never lived."

I don't think that's in vanilla. CK2+ has stillbirths with a message along those lines (though it doesn't give them a name).

 

[Rascar Capac]

I'm not sure because I don't remember seeing anything like that. Maybe you're right or maybe it's for children who died with the sickly trait. I wonder if the infant mortality rate will increase in the upcoming patch. Probably not.

No, I'm sure it was stillborn event.

I don't think that's in vanilla. CK2+ has stillbirths with a message along those lines (though it doesn't give them a name).

I may misremember. When one plays CKII for years, can't be 100% sure what's what. I've never played CK2+, though.