Incest marriages for all religions

[Gamengervi]

As you say children are bastards on eyes on church and bastards eyes on folk, but you still can marry and folk, cchurch and vassals can hate you for it and try to kill you for every day and thats your punishment for not following a law, But there is never unseen divine force who can stop you.

Player free will, and ai low rationality or honor would be trigger it + good releations between siblings.

In game of throne mod there is valyria religion where you can marry with siblings. But there is modifer abomination of incest what reduces opinion and child of abomination what also reduces opinion, In ck2 it should be similar opinion penalty like knows adulter but harser opinion penalty.

If i make mod about fornication it not prevent peoples from fonicating but just reduces change people dont do it becouse they are afraid of punishment.

If you want absolute free will, then use mods or the console or whatever. If you want to play the game the way it's meant to be played, then there are a few gameplay elements and historical guidelines you have to follow. What you want just never really happened in reality and this game, as a historical simulation, is based on reality.

Upon further research, I have found one count who was born nearly at the end of the Middle Ages who "married" his sister. And I put emphasis on the "married" part because it was completely against the law and not even considered a marriage by any legal means. His name was John V of Armagnac. Perhaps it is who SigurdStormhand posted about earlier. But, again, it was not actually a marriage.

 

[Topkekk]

If you want absolute free will, then use mods or the console or whatever. If you want to play the game the way it's meant to be played, then there are a few gameplay elements and historical guidelines you have to follow. What you want just never really happened in reality and this game, as a historical simulation, is based on reality.

Upon further research, I have found one count who was born nearly at the end of the Middle Ages who "married" his sister. And I put emphasis on the "married" part because it was completely against the law and not even considered a marriage by any legal means. His name was John V of Armagnac. Perhaps it is who SigurdStormhand posted about earlier. But, again, it was not actually a marriage.

John V of Armagnac was a CK2 player incarnate. He was a huge opportunistic asshole,was into incest marriage, and rebelled against the crown with a faction. He may have actually been a CK2 player who stumbled upon a time machine.

 

[EU3NOOB]

Did he end up going blind? Did she die of depression?

Oh no, it was so much fun to have sexy times with my mommy...

*profuse vomiting*

 

[SigurdStormhand]

Ah, that was the guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_V,_Count_of_Armagnac

He "married" his sister, they had three children - all recognised as bastards.

 

[Urzhail64]

On a related note,(which is one hell of a pun..) I watched the BBC production of "Moll Flanders" with Alex Kingston last night. Ya know the novel Daniel Defoe wrote about a woman being married five times - once to her own brother.

Just tossing that out there.

 

[DPS]

But there is never unseen divine force who can stop you.

It's not about some "unseen divine force" stopping people from marrying whoever they wanted, nor was it about their personal moral beliefs stopping them. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox patriarchs had enormous secular power, and in Islamic realms, there was technically no division at all between the church and the state. Calling the power of the clergy in the Middle ages an "unseen divine force" is like calling the US federal law that prohibits bigamy an unseen divine force.

 

[hagagaga]

I have no problem with allowing people to take family members as concubines. However, calling it marriage is a step too far.

 

[Arona]

It's not about some "unseen divine force" stopping people from marrying whoever they wanted, nor was it about their personal moral beliefs stopping them. The Catholic Church and the Orthodox patriarchs had enormous secular power, and in Islamic realms, there was technically no division at all between the church and the state. Calling the power of the clergy in the Middle ages an "unseen divine force" is like calling the US federal law that prohibits bigamy an unseen divine force.

Marrige is not goverment aproved contract, it contract and alliance between 2 people. Lets watch today india. Out side of big citys. All you need to get marryd is to find priest/priestess who maked handbinding ceremony and all community considers them married,

The Catholic Church and the Orthodox patriarchs had enormous secular power. So? Let them provoke folk against you, for marryng wrong person, let them demand pope to excummunicate you, let them start plots, let them demand liege to revoke your titles. What if you are emperor who owns half a ck2 map, what silly priest can do. Revolt every week, rebellion every year, assasination plot everyday, yeah let them do it if they have power and if sinful ruler cant handle it they problem.

Federal law is as much unseen divine force as clergy in middle ages, They set rules and hold a power to punish you but people still can break rules and get punished. And most people fear of punsment is all to keep them from breaking rule, but they still can do it there is no unseen force to stop them.

In middle age there was fear of punishment and rational mind who controlled peoples acts not unseen divine force like ck2.

 

[Arona]

Its not just me who wants to play as incestious bastard. But i want reality. Reason to rovoke incestious vassals titles hava a reason to rebel against inbreeding liege dynasty and have more realistic favor.

Power can punsih guilti only if it has strenght to do it, all powerful can do what he wants. If people are so against it as part of main game then atleast add it to game rules.

 

[Woifee]

But since we get the rule chosing menu with all of the weird stuff just also give an option for ibreed marriages.

 

[Gamengervi]

Ah, that was the guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_V,_Count_of_Armagnac

He "married" his sister, they had three children - all recognised as bastards.

And what a cruel twist of irony it was that his only legitimate child was a stillborn. Are there stillborns in Crusader Kings? I know the child can get sick and die, but what about being born dead?

 

[Thure]

And what a cruel twist of irony it was that his only legitimate child was a stillborn. Are there stillborns in Crusader Kings? I know the child can get sick and die, but what about being born dead?

They are represented by not being born and a lower fertility rate than in RL.

 

[Nyrael]

Actually, you're wrong about that. There was such a thing as secular marriage during the Middle Ages. Probably not among the nobles though.

Secular marriages were more common then than today tbh. It wasn't until the Reformation Age that Churches started giving marriages en-masse. Until then, Churches mainly gave them to nobles who wanted to have really flashy weddings.
HOWEVER, the Church still defined which marriages were fine and which were not, defined when divorces were alright, and brought several laws on the topic of marriage.

 

[Gamengervi]

Secular marriages were more common then than today tbh. It wasn't until the Reformation Age that Churches started giving marriages en-masse. Until then, Churches mainly gave them to nobles who wanted to have really flashy weddings.
HOWEVER, the Church still defined which marriages were fine and which were not, defined when divorces were alright, and brought several laws on the topic of marriage.

If someone wanted a divorce in reality, did they always have to ask the Pope for permission? Or were there local representatives who could grant the right or something?

 

[hagagaga]

If someone wanted a divorce in reality, did they always have to ask the Pope for permission? Or were there local representatives who could grant the right or something?

I'm pretty sure that bishops can authorize it.

 

[Gamengervi]

They are represented by not being born and a lower fertility rate than in RL.

What do you mean by not being born? Can you get unpregnant in the game?

I'm pretty sure that bishops can authorize it.

Cool. Thanks.

 

[Zorlond]

*brings sister and a handful of guards to the local church, marches up to the priest* Marry us.
*refuse*
*draws sword, levels it at priest* Marry us.
...
*cleans sword* Bring the next priest in. No, don't remove the body, I want him to see it...


Sooner or later you'll find a priest who will do it. Will there be repurcussions? Abso-frickin'-lutely. Excommunication at the very least. Potential revolts. Pope might even anull it. Or try to, anyways. Depends on if anyone listens to him or not (yes, that is a variable state in medeival times). But right now, it's just a flat, hard-coded 'no'. And face it, that's not realistic.

 

[Caspoi]

What do you mean by not being born? Can you get unpregnant in the game?


Cool. Thanks.

I Think that he means that they were never born in the first Place, a.k.a. that women give fewer births than they should because some of them die of screen.

 

[hagagaga]

*brings sister and a handful of guards to the local church, marches up to the priest* Marry us.
*refuse*
*draws sword, levels it at priest* Marry us.
...
*cleans sword* Bring the next priest in. No, don't remove the body, I want him to see it...


Sooner or later you'll find a priest who will do it. Will there be repurcussions? Abso-frickin'-lutely. Excommunication at the very least. Potential revolts. Pope might even anull it. Or try to, anyways. Depends on if anyone listens to him or not (yes, that is a variable state in medeival times). But right now, it's just a flat, hard-coded 'no'. And face it, that's not realistic.

Just because you get a priest to perform a marriage doesn't make it legitimate.

 

[Zorlond]

Just because you get a priest to perform a marriage doesn't make it legitimate.

Gee, and everyone in here earlier was saying that was the one reason why it wouldn't be legitimate. So, which is it?