:rofl:caliburn said:
But still dont you think that if the incas explore the old world with their resources and boni, they will be too powerful?
Inca Empire or am I missing a patch?
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But still dont you think that if the incas explore the old world with their resources and boni, they will be too powerful?
Well, I think that Incas have way too much money in the game. We all know they didn't care about gold but they have lots of provinces at the start of the game that have gold as production resource. That is prolly devs way to simulate wealth (for Europeans) Inca had. I like the idea of giving bonuses and minuses for each specified religion and culture (as a matter of fact I'm thinking to add them to each culture and religion myself...gonna be lots of work tho). However, if you're going to modify Incas to show them historically you should also take out the gold resources they have ingame and change them into something more historical, while at the same time adding events that will trigger when Europeans take province from Inca giving a large quantity of gold (from plunder). You should also change the New World tech penalty (I mean 0.1 multiplier... :wacko: ). As a matter of fact the whole tech group thingie seems to me too much generalized and a very crude tool for keeping things the way they were historically. Adding separate modifiers is a hell of a job, and requires quite some time and knowledge, but still, I think it would add allot to the game... Feedback anyone ?
caliburn said:
Maybe because German had over 1 million army at that time, and Denmark probably had like 40k?
Spacehamster said:
Hitler, Stalin ´'bs cough'..
ok your right I guess? .......................
True, thats why I said in the current setup they are way too wealthy, but IRL they could/did not turn this wealth into development as they did not care about gold. Agreed that tech group is not the best solution, but as you say its not easy to give every nation its own modifiers.FreeeLancer said:
I think too, to completly drop the whole "technology group modifier" since I'm unable to finely tune modifiers because of it.
And I don't understand the point of it in the first place.
As far as gold is concerned I agree that the gold reliance of Inca must be changed. One of the effects of so many gold resource provinces is sky high inflation. (Well, since the highest inflation I've had was with Austria around 10% before National Bank NI and with Inca Empire is already at 7% in year 1587.)
I think that too is rather unrealistic in Inca Empire.
Events that would give Europeans a significant amount of gold after anexing certain provinces are good idea.
Btw, why is Panama producing naval supplies?!
to Vordus: Maybe you should check how many soldiers were actualy deployed by the Wermacht in Denmark nad Belgium and somewhat downsize "milion soldiers vs. 40k"? Btw, with that remark I was making a point that we cannot view one nations development solely through its military achivements, or to view them as a main factor. Nothing more.
And I don't understand the point of it in the first place.
As far as gold is concerned I agree that the gold reliance of Inca must be changed. One of the effects of so many gold resource provinces is sky high inflation. (Well, since the highest inflation I've had was with Austria around 10% before National Bank NI and with Inca Empire is already at 7% in year 1587.)
I think that too is rather unrealistic in Inca Empire.
Events that would give Europeans a significant amount of gold after anexing certain provinces are good idea.
Btw, why is Panama producing naval supplies?!
to Vordus: Maybe you should check how many soldiers were actualy deployed by the Wermacht in Denmark nad Belgium and somewhat downsize "milion soldiers vs. 40k"? Btw, with that remark I was making a point that we cannot view one nations development solely through its military achivements, or to view them as a main factor. Nothing more.
The Tahuantinsuyo (Which is what the Inca would have called themselves) were actually in most ways ahead of the Europeans when they were conquered. Much like the fall of Burgundy (or the Cleveland Indians), it was just a really bad luck streak that destroyed them.
They really shouldn't be considered "tribal" as they had a more modern government than Europe: while Europe still had dukes and princes, the Inca divided their nation into four provinces, with the center meeting in Cuzco. Each province had a governor. These were subdivided based on geographic and cultural lines into regions in which the governors appointed lower level leaders, and so on, down to villages.
The Inca did not have horses, but horses aren't that much of a use in the Andes or the Amazon anyway. The same with the wheel: not there, but anyone who has seen Inca roads (they were impressive, but many ran up incredibly steep slopes) wouldn't want to risk that ride anyways- much safer to walk.
They did have naval power, but their balsas never got bigger than a galley, so I don't have an issue with their naval portrayal in EU3.
IIRC from a History Channel show I saw, the Incas had an army of over 20,000 waiting for Atahualpa's command to attack the Spanish. When Atahualpa was captured and killed with no heir, the army was without a leader, and so did not slaughter the Spanish as they should have (200 Span. in heavy armor on horses would lose to 200 elite mountain fighters, much less 20,000)
And, finally, I don't know if anyone is working on an American Mod to bring the Western Hemisphere up to historical standards, but if there is, I can contribute. I already have a pretty good Miami nation added (miami as in the Federal Republic of 1400-1750 in northern Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Ohio) in the makings, and when I'm done I'm gonna do the Illinois Federation, the Miami's biggest rival. In the process, I'll be updating the Iroqois- in vanilla EU3, they never expand out of NE, when in reality their armies marched to the Mississippi. I'd be happy to contribute these to a comprehensive mod, if anyone is interested.
They really shouldn't be considered "tribal" as they had a more modern government than Europe: while Europe still had dukes and princes, the Inca divided their nation into four provinces, with the center meeting in Cuzco. Each province had a governor. These were subdivided based on geographic and cultural lines into regions in which the governors appointed lower level leaders, and so on, down to villages.
The Inca did not have horses, but horses aren't that much of a use in the Andes or the Amazon anyway. The same with the wheel: not there, but anyone who has seen Inca roads (they were impressive, but many ran up incredibly steep slopes) wouldn't want to risk that ride anyways- much safer to walk.
They did have naval power, but their balsas never got bigger than a galley, so I don't have an issue with their naval portrayal in EU3.
IIRC from a History Channel show I saw, the Incas had an army of over 20,000 waiting for Atahualpa's command to attack the Spanish. When Atahualpa was captured and killed with no heir, the army was without a leader, and so did not slaughter the Spanish as they should have (200 Span. in heavy armor on horses would lose to 200 elite mountain fighters, much less 20,000)
And, finally, I don't know if anyone is working on an American Mod to bring the Western Hemisphere up to historical standards, but if there is, I can contribute. I already have a pretty good Miami nation added (miami as in the Federal Republic of 1400-1750 in northern Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, and Ohio) in the makings, and when I'm done I'm gonna do the Illinois Federation, the Miami's biggest rival. In the process, I'll be updating the Iroqois- in vanilla EU3, they never expand out of NE, when in reality their armies marched to the Mississippi. I'd be happy to contribute these to a comprehensive mod, if anyone is interested.
Yeah. The Incas and Americans still managed to field armies that not even the Romans on their best era could have fielded (sure, they had huge armies, but most were mercenaries, or some may say, mainly from the conquered people).
And the Aztecs seem to have gotten over the guns quickly enough. I do believe the same would have applied to the Incans had they not been stupid and allowed themselves to be played as fools by Pizarro.
And, I seem to remember the Spanish conquistadors had loses, so my guess is their armor and weapons weren't that superior, but as I said, they captured the Incan emperor and placed a puppet, and as for the Aztecs they had the natives to fight for them. Not to mention, the Conquistadors were not chivalric knights from France or any other such knights. They wore less armor, and when using some of the more protective ones, there were still many holes in the armor.
Although I do admire Pedro de Alvarado and his stopping the Aztecs singlehandedly for a while.
That might sound a bit weird, but I just realized I had forgotten to post it over 2 days ago or so :S.
Someone said something again about the Gothic and other Cathedrals. Those used the arch, which was first (at least massively) used by the Romans. It sure as hell is easy to improve on old tech rather than making the old tech yourself and then improving it. The Incans appeared sometime on the 13th century and managed to fast forward many advances. Sounds like something the Europeans took millennia to achieve. Hell even now scientists wonder how the Incas managed to build many things. They made bridges from threads and trees and god knows what else (I wasn't paying that much attention) that still stand over canyons in which the modern man is unable to make a concrete bridge.
Now of course, we all know that nearly every nation, except perhaps for Europe and some parts of Africa, was far more advanced on every aspect of life, culture, and technology than their European counterparts. This is, with the exception of war and military, since unlike many other areas, the Europeans seem to have had something against the term and status of "peace" :/. Even the Ottomans, who weren't much better themselves, called Europe the land of war.
That, and Christianity, didn't leave much ground for spiritual discovery and what have you. The better learned they are, the easier you can control them.
Oh, and about mad kings and absolute rulers. Let me bring your attention to Ivan the Terrible, Louis XVI, Vlad the Impaler, Henry VIII, the Tokugawa, and quite many others. Just because you don't consider them a god, doesn't make it any less absolute.
Oh, and the Pharaohs were gods, and look at the pyramids, which we have no idea of how to recreate either, and one of which, the Great Pyramid of Giza, was the tallest building in the world until the year 1300 A.D., quite a long time after Ancient Egypt had died and was under Mameluke control. And it is still there, unlike the other European and Non-European 7 wonders. So, being called a similar in technology to Ancient Egypt isn't that much of an insult, I would consider it a compliment if I was in the Medieval Era.
That is of course, ignoring the military technology (including, but not limited to, metallurgy).
And the Aztecs seem to have gotten over the guns quickly enough. I do believe the same would have applied to the Incans had they not been stupid and allowed themselves to be played as fools by Pizarro.
And, I seem to remember the Spanish conquistadors had loses, so my guess is their armor and weapons weren't that superior, but as I said, they captured the Incan emperor and placed a puppet, and as for the Aztecs they had the natives to fight for them. Not to mention, the Conquistadors were not chivalric knights from France or any other such knights. They wore less armor, and when using some of the more protective ones, there were still many holes in the armor.
Although I do admire Pedro de Alvarado and his stopping the Aztecs singlehandedly for a while.
That might sound a bit weird, but I just realized I had forgotten to post it over 2 days ago or so :S.
Someone said something again about the Gothic and other Cathedrals. Those used the arch, which was first (at least massively) used by the Romans. It sure as hell is easy to improve on old tech rather than making the old tech yourself and then improving it. The Incans appeared sometime on the 13th century and managed to fast forward many advances. Sounds like something the Europeans took millennia to achieve. Hell even now scientists wonder how the Incas managed to build many things. They made bridges from threads and trees and god knows what else (I wasn't paying that much attention) that still stand over canyons in which the modern man is unable to make a concrete bridge.
Now of course, we all know that nearly every nation, except perhaps for Europe and some parts of Africa, was far more advanced on every aspect of life, culture, and technology than their European counterparts. This is, with the exception of war and military, since unlike many other areas, the Europeans seem to have had something against the term and status of "peace" :/. Even the Ottomans, who weren't much better themselves, called Europe the land of war.
That, and Christianity, didn't leave much ground for spiritual discovery and what have you. The better learned they are, the easier you can control them.
Oh, and about mad kings and absolute rulers. Let me bring your attention to Ivan the Terrible, Louis XVI, Vlad the Impaler, Henry VIII, the Tokugawa, and quite many others. Just because you don't consider them a god, doesn't make it any less absolute.
Oh, and the Pharaohs were gods, and look at the pyramids, which we have no idea of how to recreate either, and one of which, the Great Pyramid of Giza, was the tallest building in the world until the year 1300 A.D., quite a long time after Ancient Egypt had died and was under Mameluke control. And it is still there, unlike the other European and Non-European 7 wonders. So, being called a similar in technology to Ancient Egypt isn't that much of an insult, I would consider it a compliment if I was in the Medieval Era.
That is of course, ignoring the military technology (including, but not limited to, metallurgy).
And yet despite all their achivements they are no more, becuase the Europeans did what they do best: killed them 
It have been said that the Inca form of government was so sophisticated and advanced, but that's really just a matter of personal taste: personally I would say that Anarchy is the highest form of government since it doesn't opress the individuals freedom.
In matters of war, no continent could match Europe. Europe pretty much have had more wars than all other continents combined. While the Incas pretty much had no enemies left after subjugating the Chimu and as a result their armies had little to none experience of real combat.
And why all this condemning of European belligerence? War is glorious! I wish we had more of them!
It have been said that the Inca form of government was so sophisticated and advanced, but that's really just a matter of personal taste: personally I would say that Anarchy is the highest form of government since it doesn't opress the individuals freedom.
In matters of war, no continent could match Europe. Europe pretty much have had more wars than all other continents combined. While the Incas pretty much had no enemies left after subjugating the Chimu and as a result their armies had little to none experience of real combat.
And why all this condemning of European belligerence? War is glorious! I wish we had more of them!
Europeans did a great job at winning a war against nations ravaged by diseases that took out 9 out of every 10.
I think an applause is in order. I cannot agree that, though Europeans undisputable were much more advanced in military technology than non-Europeans during the period covered by EUIII, they put that advantage to a good use. On the contrary I remember a quote that goes something like:"We don't have to worry about tactics as long as we have Maxim (as in machine gun), and they don't."
"Lifting a feather isn't a sign of great strength." (or something like that...o ) Sun Tzu
Btw, Terra Nova is a great mod for NA. I do suggest you try it. With a few more modifications thing can get rolling pretty soon.
I think an applause is in order. I cannot agree that, though Europeans undisputable were much more advanced in military technology than non-Europeans during the period covered by EUIII, they put that advantage to a good use. On the contrary I remember a quote that goes something like:"We don't have to worry about tactics as long as we have Maxim (as in machine gun), and they don't."
"Lifting a feather isn't a sign of great strength." (or something like that...
o ) Sun TzuBtw, Terra Nova is a great mod for NA. I do suggest you try it. With a few more modifications thing can get rolling pretty soon.
I wanted just to say this to Darken:
Man, I don't when do you sleep, eat or drink, but count on at least a gallon of finest coffee from me
I'm thrilled with your Terra Nova 3.19 mod. Realy am!!!
Started as Inca Empire, and though there is no chance to form the complete Empire before 1500 AD as they historicaly did, the sheer fun of playing it is imense.
I've combined MMIV and Terra Nova 3.19 via mixing the files and copy/paste so the game is little unstable (I get CTD aprox. every two hours or so), but it's more dynamic than vanila, more historicaly accurate and more fun to play.
Thanks!
Man, I don't when do you sleep, eat or drink, but count on at least a gallon of finest coffee from me
I'm thrilled with your Terra Nova 3.19 mod. Realy am!!!
Started as Inca Empire, and though there is no chance to form the complete Empire before 1500 AD as they historicaly did, the sheer fun of playing it is imense.
I've combined MMIV and Terra Nova 3.19 via mixing the files and copy/paste so the game is little unstable (I get CTD aprox. every two hours or so), but it's more dynamic than vanila, more historicaly accurate and more fun to play.
Thanks!
caliburn said:I wanted just to say this to Darken:
Man, I don't when do you sleep, eat or drink, but count on at least a gallon of finest coffee from me
I'm thrilled with your Terra Nova 3.19 mod. Realy am!!!
Started as Inca Empire, and though there is no chance to form the complete Empire before 1500 AD as they historicaly did, the sheer fun of playing it is imense.
I've combined MMIV and Terra Nova 3.19 via mixing the files and copy/paste so the game is little unstable (I get CTD aprox. every two hours or so), but it's more dynamic than vanila, more historicaly accurate and more fun to play.
Thanks!
:rofl:
I am glad you enjoyed it
thank you for taking the time to report your opinion.one reason why it may be crashing is due to some events i used from MM3 with thier permission. the events i added are in the exploration.txt event file. any explore event (near the bottom of the file) that is meant for a european country is a MM event. these events will most likely have the same event id's as the MM4 events so they need to be removed from my explorations.txt. other than that i cannot think of anything that would cause a crash unless MM4 includes something i have made (varaible system?, events? (immigration/slavery?). i do not think they have used anything of mine so it may be something else. another thing you can remove from the exploration.txt file is the map reveal events if you will not be using them. there is no need to have them since they only fire manualy if you want them to. also, all of my events (other than sengoku) have a xx9xx pattern. 10900 to 20900. there will always be a 9 in my event id's at the same place.
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Amob_m_s said:
if you havent looked at Terra Nova, Mattfolk, or Mesoamerica mods, check them out. i used some content from mattfolk thier permission and will be adding some content from mesoamerica mod to TN. it looks like my TN mod will have a good historical backbone for central and south america once i get the mesoamerica content added. i have not however done much with north america and i am worried about the historical accuracies of mattfolk mod north american country placement. if you have suggestions or want to help in a certain area let me know.
Well, as far as North America is concerned there are three nations that ought to be modded, that to my mind.
(1) Six Nation Confederation (originaly Five Nations, consisting of Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga and Senecas in respectively order from northwest to south east on the map, and Tuscaroras; they joined Confederation, as a full member in 1720. if I'm not mistaken ) also known as Iroquois Confederation.
Now in english language iroquis can be both a noun and an adjective so some confusion arises about some other iroquis nations e.g. Cherokee that spoke the same language iroquis, but very not iroquis.
Before 1720. Five Nations had territory stretching from north of Montreal in northwest down to border of state of New Jersey, with river st. Lawrence and lakes Ontario and Erie as their nothern border toward Hurons their almost arhcenemies for centuries before white man came.
I would consider giving Six Nations bonuses in goverment technology (after all Constition of U.S. is copy/paste of their own), trade technology and land technology and severe penalties for navy technology and production technology, with quality vs. quantity all the way in favour of quality.
I'm thinking of adding an event that would ally Six Nation to the British and Hurons to the French under conditions that they share borders or something like that and that the British and the French are at war with each other.
(2) The Cherokee Nation, that in 1720. had territory covering most of state of Tennessee with Ohio river in the north and Tennessee river in the west as their border. Bonuses for land, goverment and production, penalties for naval.
I'm undecisive about trade, with quality vs. quantity all the way in favour of quality. Btw, they realy should have a fort in every province they own.
(3) Seminole. Now, I know they are minor nation with one or maybe two provinces in terms of EUIII, but they are still where they originaly were when white man came and haven't signed any treaties with white man (they think of themselves as of only NA nation that hasn't surendered or succumbed to the invaders. In my opinion that has a lot to do with swamps they live in). I have no idea about the modifiers though, but any foreign army on their turf should suffer significant attrition and terrain penalty.
I hope this helps a bit.
(1) Six Nation Confederation (originaly Five Nations, consisting of Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga and Senecas in respectively order from northwest to south east on the map, and Tuscaroras; they joined Confederation, as a full member in 1720. if I'm not mistaken ) also known as Iroquois Confederation.
Now in english language iroquis can be both a noun and an adjective so some confusion arises about some other iroquis nations e.g. Cherokee that spoke the same language iroquis, but very not iroquis.
Before 1720. Five Nations had territory stretching from north of Montreal in northwest down to border of state of New Jersey, with river st. Lawrence and lakes Ontario and Erie as their nothern border toward Hurons their almost arhcenemies for centuries before white man came.
I would consider giving Six Nations bonuses in goverment technology (after all Constition of U.S. is copy/paste of their own), trade technology and land technology and severe penalties for navy technology and production technology, with quality vs. quantity all the way in favour of quality.
I'm thinking of adding an event that would ally Six Nation to the British and Hurons to the French under conditions that they share borders or something like that and that the British and the French are at war with each other.
(2) The Cherokee Nation, that in 1720. had territory covering most of state of Tennessee with Ohio river in the north and Tennessee river in the west as their border. Bonuses for land, goverment and production, penalties for naval.
I'm undecisive about trade, with quality vs. quantity all the way in favour of quality. Btw, they realy should have a fort in every province they own.
(3) Seminole. Now, I know they are minor nation with one or maybe two provinces in terms of EUIII, but they are still where they originaly were when white man came and haven't signed any treaties with white man (they think of themselves as of only NA nation that hasn't surendered or succumbed to the invaders. In my opinion that has a lot to do with swamps they live in). I have no idea about the modifiers though, but any foreign army on their turf should suffer significant attrition and terrain penalty.
I hope this helps a bit.
caliburn said:
These are good, but as I said, there are a couple others that are needed to complete the picture. The Miami and Illinois are the ones I have looked at, but I am sure there are some more. The thing that interests me about those two is their constant rivalry, which the Iroqois used against them in order to conquer the Ohio Valley region. These tribes also had somewhat centralized federal systems, with seperate tribes sending delegates to annual congresses. They also had some of the most interesting and completely messed up politics in the EU3 timeframe, dealing with multiple allegiances, alliances, and rivalries. Each fought against and for one another, the French, the British, the Shawnee, and the Iroqois, as well as Pontiac later.
Also, if possible, the Powhatan nation in Virginia would be a good NA faction, again, one with a historically centralized government (relatively speaking) However I don't know how this would work with the colonization engine because the Powhatans basically gave the Europeans land in real life, but this land was much smaller than EU provinces, so this would be a rough effect to mod in.
I haven't played TN or any of the other mods mentioned, being a regular MM player, but I guess I'll have to check them out before I do to much "we need a mod to do this..."
caliburn said:
i think i will post this in the TN thread as a guide for when i edit NA countries. thanks. i wont be able to do much modding for a week probably.
to Amob_m_s: You are right of course about lively diplomacy activity, but I'm not sure how to arrange that. Maybe through events.
to Darken: Your welcome.
Just to add some things.
- Hurons and Five Nations should be in war with each other from the start with intelocking claims on each other provinces so you could keep them in the state of war for a long time.
- Hurons, Five Nations, Cherokee and the nations between them should form Iroquois culture group.
- It would be sweet to add an event to make an event that would make royal marriage between Cherokee and Scotland to symbolize significant number of marriages that realy took place. I mean Cherokee nations even had John Ross as their leader for a while. OK I'm a romantic soul, so what
- That annex thingie for NA should be totaly dropped.
- In the EUIII time frame European countries didn't reached some of the NA nations further inland like the Siuox tribes, and I'm not quite sure why central parts of what today is USA isn't permanent Terra Incognita, since it was being discovered and conquered during XIX century just as central Africa was. In my vanila 1.3 game with Russia by 1650 AD, England had whole USA except for Alaska and the half of the Canada, and the other half belonging to Scotland with nly one NA province controlled by the Creek. I'm stil puzzled by how on earth they came up with sufficient colonists. In my MMIV game with Japan, by 1700 AD. France, Portugal and Teutonic Order share control over USA with absolutely no NA.
I think that is rather impossible considering technology that was at hand, so something should be done to prevent that, but I still haven't figured out what.o
to Darken: Your welcome
. Just to add some things.
- Hurons and Five Nations should be in war with each other from the start with intelocking claims on each other provinces so you could keep them in the state of war for a long time.
- Hurons, Five Nations, Cherokee and the nations between them should form Iroquois culture group.
- It would be sweet to add an event to make an event that would make royal marriage between Cherokee and Scotland to symbolize significant number of marriages that realy took place. I mean Cherokee nations even had John Ross as their leader for a while. OK I'm a romantic soul, so what
- That annex thingie for NA should be totaly dropped.
- In the EUIII time frame European countries didn't reached some of the NA nations further inland like the Siuox tribes, and I'm not quite sure why central parts of what today is USA isn't permanent Terra Incognita, since it was being discovered and conquered during XIX century just as central Africa was. In my vanila 1.3 game with Russia by 1650 AD, England had whole USA except for Alaska and the half of the Canada, and the other half belonging to Scotland with nly one NA province controlled by the Creek. I'm stil puzzled by how on earth they came up with sufficient colonists. In my MMIV game with Japan, by 1700 AD. France, Portugal and Teutonic Order share control over USA with absolutely no NA.
I think that is rather impossible considering technology that was at hand, so something should be done to prevent that, but I still haven't figured out what.
o
caliburn said:- In the EUIII time frame European countries didn't reached some of the NA nations further inland like the Siuox tribes, and I'm not quite sure why central parts of what today is USA isn't permanent Terra Incognita, since it was being discovered and conquered during XIX century just as central Africa was. In my vanila 1.3 game with Russia by 1650 AD, England had whole USA except for Alaska and the half of the Canada, and the other half belonging to Scotland with nly one NA province controlled by the Creek. I'm stil puzzled by how on earth they came up with sufficient colonists. In my MMIV game with Japan, by 1700 AD. France, Portugal and Teutonic Order share control over USA with absolutely no NA.
I think that is rather impossible considering technology that was at hand, so something should be done to prevent that, but I still haven't figured out what.
In MM, there's a supply of colonists designed for the historical colonizers and QftNW countries, along with the right ideas, and right policies, it's likely that in 1500, that nations will have like 6 colonists per year, that, with some luck, would make the 13 colonies area colonized to cities in 20 years...
To all those going on about Incan masonry work and how it could stand up to cannons because it was so well done and survived strong earthquakes I suggest you better study your history and physics for that matter.
An earthquake and a cannon ball hitting a wall are two completely different forces.
What fortifications Incans had were never designed to withstand a siege with european siege weapons in play. They were designed to aid in defending against attackers using the weapons found in their area which were primitive weapons that didn't require massively thick walls to stop huge shocks. They were designed to stop arrows, spears and to stop attackers from being able to just run into town from any direction.
Fact is that forts didn't surive against cannon fire. Heck, forts don't surive against eve older siege weapons in most cases. It's just a matter of time. Cannons though were a whole new ball game that required completely new designs for forts. Gone were the high walls and in were the incredibly thick walls many times filled with earth. These were to absorb the impact from the cannon ball.
It was never expected that stone would stand up to a ball of iron hitting it at high speeds. The one or two layers of stone that the incans used, no matter how well spaced, was going to shatter and come apart fairly quickly. They were simply never designed for that type of fight for the obvious reason that they never had to deal with anything like that. So why would they?
An earthquake and a cannon ball hitting a wall are two completely different forces.
What fortifications Incans had were never designed to withstand a siege with european siege weapons in play. They were designed to aid in defending against attackers using the weapons found in their area which were primitive weapons that didn't require massively thick walls to stop huge shocks. They were designed to stop arrows, spears and to stop attackers from being able to just run into town from any direction.
Fact is that forts didn't surive against cannon fire. Heck, forts don't surive against eve older siege weapons in most cases. It's just a matter of time. Cannons though were a whole new ball game that required completely new designs for forts. Gone were the high walls and in were the incredibly thick walls many times filled with earth. These were to absorb the impact from the cannon ball.
It was never expected that stone would stand up to a ball of iron hitting it at high speeds. The one or two layers of stone that the incans used, no matter how well spaced, was going to shatter and come apart fairly quickly. They were simply never designed for that type of fight for the obvious reason that they never had to deal with anything like that. So why would they?
pfffffuuuuuu that is a huge post.
In fact all those argument between so called "inca fanboy" and so called "white barbarians" are due to programming choices.
If you don't want to hardcode every outcome through "event" you will have to give a huge handicap to south american civilization. The other way they will resist much more, at least to the first conquest.
The major issue to prove my point is gold producing province. For natives economy was not driven by gold, and gold was just for worshiping stuff.
It you want to simulate a proper native economy, you should be able to switch production.
But as I have seen in other reply, that will have no impact on final result, diseases and complete collapse of the way they imagine the world will have sooner or later put an end to those empire (no matter the great achievement they have done).
Europeans have made true the sentence: when there is a will, there is a way.
In fact all those argument between so called "inca fanboy" and so called "white barbarians" are due to programming choices.
If you don't want to hardcode every outcome through "event" you will have to give a huge handicap to south american civilization. The other way they will resist much more, at least to the first conquest.
The major issue to prove my point is gold producing province. For natives economy was not driven by gold, and gold was just for worshiping stuff.
It you want to simulate a proper native economy, you should be able to switch production.
But as I have seen in other reply, that will have no impact on final result, diseases and complete collapse of the way they imagine the world will have sooner or later put an end to those empire (no matter the great achievement they have done).
Europeans have made true the sentence: when there is a will, there is a way.