So I have had France as an ally for a while now, and would like to continue this alliance as it has been mutually beneficial. Would there be any penalties to marring my niece? Would my inbred children be more likely to be imbeciles or something?
Inbreeding? Any penalties?
- Thread starter redmoretrout
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They're also, not shockingly, far more likely to have the "Inbred" trait. Of course, you can see the (relative) chances of this if you look at the DNA of the characters in question. I married two characters who were cousins with no problem, but I checked their DNA and only saw two letters in common. Of course, even then they can turn out with negative traits.
From lots of dynastic bad choices from the AI I've seen a lot of incestuous couples, they have a very VERY small chance of becoming inbred. In fact the only time I can think of was when I had marry_anyone on so that I could unite the family lands a bit faster, brother and sister had 1 inbred child out of like 10, plenty of attractive and genius kids while they were at it.
I'm pretty sure there is no additional chance for negative traits, its based on 1) random chance, 2)inheritance including positive traits turning to their opposite and 3) events.
Basically don't worry about it. You could run a game where you have every member marrying another dynasty member and you'll end up with very few inbred kids that tend to die early anyway. I've seen it assigned as a random trait for generic courtiers more often than an actual marriage causing it.
I'm pretty sure there is no additional chance for negative traits, its based on 1) random chance, 2)inheritance including positive traits turning to their opposite and 3) events.
Basically don't worry about it. You could run a game where you have every member marrying another dynasty member and you'll end up with very few inbred kids that tend to die early anyway. I've seen it assigned as a random trait for generic courtiers more often than an actual marriage causing it.
As I've seen it inbreeding builds up the more you do it. I managed to mess up a branch of my dynasty by constantly marrying my daughters into their male line until all their children had awful traits. If you marry your genius cousin to your genius character, you may well get the imbecile trait. It's not just the inbred trait that appears. I noticed no effects for a few generations but I'm positive that by the end of it at least half or more of the dynasties new members were completely messed up.
EDIT: I think having the same letters in their DNA makes it more likely that bad traits will crop up. Since inbreeding narrows down the pool of letters in your dynasty, each successive inbred dynast is more likely to develop the bad traits until it becomes almost certain that they'll be and ugly, weak, imbecile, hunchback, dwarf inbred with a harelip and a stutter. (Stutters are hereditary in game, it seems.)
EDIT: I think having the same letters in their DNA makes it more likely that bad traits will crop up. Since inbreeding narrows down the pool of letters in your dynasty, each successive inbred dynast is more likely to develop the bad traits until it becomes almost certain that they'll be and ugly, weak, imbecile, hunchback, dwarf inbred with a harelip and a stutter. (Stutters are hereditary in game, it seems.)
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I doubt that would help, after all, DNA only concerns physical appearance in this game. Probably the program just see if there is genealogical collapse in the family tree view and calculate the chance of inbred.
I like to land lots of my family members and because of this they tend to marry into the Dynasty all the time. I almost never see the imbred trait though bad traits do seem to pop up more then usual. I still get plenty of family members with good traits. I don't think it matters much as long as you aren't constantly marrying a close family member generation after generation. I'd imagine things would get bad then.
Avoid inbreeding. I sometimes marry an heir to a kinswoman if I lack decent partner choices (I look for partners with genius and high stewardship/diplomacy). Sometimes finding such a partner is hard and it is easier to use a courtier (often kinswoman) with genius trait that you educate along with your heir to have high stats. As long as you don't do this too often the inbred trait should not be a problem. If you happen to get an inbred heir, just kill him/her off. I tend to get rid of heirs with negative traits, and sometimes even heirs without the genius trait if a younger sibling has the genius trait.
Has inbreeding become more of a ... bad problem? I've not seen any higher chance of bad traits to marrying my heirs with their cousins/aunts/uncles/grandparents.
Why should inbreeding allways bad? I mean... Inbreeding meens both have a similar gencode. This isn't bad if it is a good gencode. If the gencode of both is good, the result of incest would be also good. It would only be bad if bith have bad assessments in ther DNA. The incest trait is only for this bad incest, not for all!
Because everyone has bad genes in there somewhere, and inbreeding means that it's more likely that those genes will be expressed in the next generation instead of being screened out by another dominant gene. The gene in game that causes genius can be paired with a recessive gene that causes imbecile, so there's a reasonable chance that Genius + Genius = imbecile.
Everyone has some dormant bad genes. The more of them that overlap, the greater the chance they manifest and worsen.
Ingame, I think it is to do with similar genes building up, and is mostly a mechanism to try and get the player to avoid inbreeding excessivley.
In real life it is to do with something called 'recessive alleles'. Simply put an alleles is an expression of a gene, so in a gene for eye colour an allele might be for blue eyes. You have two alleles of every gene - one from your mother and one from your father. Compared to other alleles, an allele can be dominant or recessive (or co-dominant, but thats not relevant here), so as an example the allele for brown eyes is more dominant than the allele for blue eyes; to have blue eyes you must inherit the allele for blue eyes from both parents, but if you inherit the allele for blue eyes from only one parent and the allele for brown eyes from the other you will have brown eyes. If you inherit the allele for brown eyes from both parents, then not only will you have brown eyes, but because all your children have to inherit one of your eye colour alleles, they will all have brown eyes aswell. This means some couples where one partner has brown eyes and the other has blue will not be able to have kids with blue eyes, while some with two brown eyed partners will have some kids with blue eyes.
However, why is inbreeding a bad thing? Well, like in the eye exaple, we have millions of genes active, many more relevant to our survival. If an allele of a gene is dominant, then it will be expressed every time you have at least one - so if it is massively detrimental to your survival, will hurt the survival of the individual, and be removed from the genepool within a relatively short time. However, as recessive alleles of genes are only expressed if you have both copies, the potentially harmful ones will be more likely to stay hidden away. However your close relatives share a lot of the same recessive alleles as you - thus potentially harmful copies of genes are more likely to express themselves. This isn't normally immediately apparent in inbreeding; at first, cousins for example are not much more likely to have kids with birth defects - although having kids with closer family members may be significantly more dangerous. After a few generations though, the genepool will be much more restiricted, and so kids are more likely to have various problems.
While I have no qualms with marrying people of my dynasty, more often than not its mere kinship, where our common ancestor was more than 3 or 4 generations ago.
On average, I encounter imbecile or inbred trait in one or 2 characters for every 100 that I breed from my dynsty couplings.
On average, I encounter imbecile or inbred trait in one or 2 characters for every 100 that I breed from my dynsty couplings.
But not so many to became -10 in every state
This trait is only for the really bad exambles.And yes, it's more likely to became gen defects, because there are allways some recessiv gens... But it isn't more likely like one disabled person with a not disabled person, for examble. Or two disabled persons.
I'm convinced all the computer does is calculate how many people are related to each other in their descendents and calculates the odds of getting inbred. No use of the actual dna code is utilized, that is merely for character portraits. Why make it more difficult to program than it needs to be? Thats right...you don't!
But keep fantasizing about the intricacies of hereditary traits and alleles in this game... its slowly turning into a science similar to astrology.
I made 2 characters with completely different dna and 2 copies of each other, it doesn't matter wether their dna is different, all that matters is their dynasty tag and their parents/grandparents.
But keep fantasizing about the intricacies of hereditary traits and alleles in this game... its slowly turning into a science similar to astrology.
I made 2 characters with completely different dna and 2 copies of each other, it doesn't matter wether their dna is different, all that matters is their dynasty tag and their parents/grandparents.
The science of CK2....think I will go give a genetics lecture at a local university with the new info I have gleamed from this thread
But not so many to became -10 in every state
And yes, it's more likely to became gen defects, because there are allways some recessiv gens... But it isn't more likely like one disabled person with a not disabled person, for examble. Or two disabled persons.
That entirely depends on what you mean by 'disability', and for that matter, I'm not even entirely sure that statement is correct - at least in disabilities that aren't caused by mutations or extra/less chromosomes. There is a something called 'hybrid vigour' which is when two genetically dissimilar member of the same species mate, the offspring are often healthier than either parent - and when breeding animals and crop plants dissimilar members of a species are sometimes allowed to breed with the animals/crop so that the gene pool is expanded and defects are lessened - even the loss of some of the characteristics of a more purebred animal/crop is OK for one or two generations to stop defects piling up. Unfortunately, in some species (I'm thinking dogs) the idea of a pedigree is so ingrained into some breeders that in breeds of dogs with fewer members they tend to forget that inbreeding and small gene pools are a bad thing because they are obsessed with purebred pedigree but I digress. Point being that if you introduce healthy alleles into the mix it tends to produce healthy individuals.