Oddible and The ChronoMaster have good points. Interface is always very important. A way to organise plots more effectively would be appreciated.
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Finally got a plot to work, or rather, at least the ability to go through with it. Shame I'm not the one who started or organized them, got the invites and now I just wish I could press dem butans. At least the AI is doing something now! =D
+1.
Generally, I like the game's UI, but the plot window is annoying. Another bad one is the dynasty tree - very confusing.
I love the fact that the game is rather easy to handle, though.
couldnt get a single plot to work... tried everything, gifts, marriage, sow discontent... they will not join it... never. even tooltips dont show why...
I was trying to plot and it said 'you are too powerful' as why people wouldnt join my plot. Does this mean that only inferior powers may plot against superior powers?
That isnt very realistic have a look at Libya where the west infiltrated the Libyan government and established double agents like Mussa Kussa to effect this insurrection and war.
That isnt very realistic have a look at Libya where the west infiltrated the Libyan government and established double agents like Mussa Kussa to effect this insurrection and war.
I've been having the same problem as pretty much all y'all. Yamana at 20% map control, yet NOT A SINGLE CLAN will join me in a fight to keep them in check (I'm roughly half their size). I get frustrated when the AI claims they can't plot because their Honor is "too low," despite having 63, AND they're an independent clan. That, and the fact that everyone is in love with Yamana more than they love me, even though I have done literally everything in my power to make them like me (and yes, I concentrated my efforts on those most likely to assist).
Now the Yamana have started attacking me, and will certainly win if I am left to fight them alone. Despite his entire army being mobilized in the east to fight me (I'm clan Satomi), none of the other clans dare to attack him. I've actually won much of the early fight (taken about 10 territories, driving back the first wave of his onslaught), and the other clans still turn the other cheek to the behemoth that will swallow them as soon as I've finally been devoured.
So the source of my irritation is two-fold. First being the point being this thread brought up. Second being the failure of the AI to recognize the threats that are going to destroy them until they are already being destroyed.
I can understand that this is supposed to be a lite version of PI's grand strategy titles, but it's game-breaking to not have some sort of threat recognition mechanic in place, like the BB system. Likely if they ended up implementing such a system in this game, it wouldn't be as quick to punish as it is in Vicky 2, or even EU3. That would make sense, as this game is primarily about conquering, and not economics nor maintaining the balance of power. However, I feel the game does need to do more to keep a nation from conquering 10% of the territories over the course of 2-3 years (which happened when they obliterated the Toki clan in my game) in terms of the other clans responding to such an immense and abrupt shift in power. This could be done with the AI organizing plots against the expansionist clan, which is what we all want more of.
Now the Yamana have started attacking me, and will certainly win if I am left to fight them alone. Despite his entire army being mobilized in the east to fight me (I'm clan Satomi), none of the other clans dare to attack him. I've actually won much of the early fight (taken about 10 territories, driving back the first wave of his onslaught), and the other clans still turn the other cheek to the behemoth that will swallow them as soon as I've finally been devoured.
So the source of my irritation is two-fold. First being the point being this thread brought up. Second being the failure of the AI to recognize the threats that are going to destroy them until they are already being destroyed.
I can understand that this is supposed to be a lite version of PI's grand strategy titles, but it's game-breaking to not have some sort of threat recognition mechanic in place, like the BB system. Likely if they ended up implementing such a system in this game, it wouldn't be as quick to punish as it is in Vicky 2, or even EU3. That would make sense, as this game is primarily about conquering, and not economics nor maintaining the balance of power. However, I feel the game does need to do more to keep a nation from conquering 10% of the territories over the course of 2-3 years (which happened when they obliterated the Toki clan in my game) in terms of the other clans responding to such an immense and abrupt shift in power. This could be done with the AI organizing plots against the expansionist clan, which is what we all want more of.
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They definately need to put this kind of thing in place. Clans should and must feel threatened by a rising power and the ai should automatically attempt to form alliances with all threatened states to attack from multiple sides against them. This is the most important thing the game needs along with a general overhaul of the plot system. Having a couple power rampage around the map ruins the game for me when im doing well in my own right only to loose the game because of events I cannot control amongst major powers much faster than should be the case.
I am having a hard time with the plot system myself. I did just about everything to break free from the Satake clan. I sowed dissent among the potential co-conspirators, both were unhappy with our lord. -20 for each of them toward him. So I sowed dissent, hired ninjas to stab at the lord's honor. I gifted my conspirators, I brokered 2-3 marriages with each of them. I had a whole corral of kids. The first bunch of negatives stated my honor wasn't high enough. I had about 55ish by the end and had raised theirs to the late thirties. They still wouldn't except. The lord's honor had even dropped to 22 at one point and i still couldn't get them to bite. Then a year later after my last attempt to recruit them, one of them recruits me for their own break free plot?! That is utter crap. Please forgive the juvenile phrase but the whole plotting experience was frustrating for me.
In terms of realism, that's fantastic (the AI trying to win/form their own clan). In terms of game mechanics (honour cost 1 vs 20) it's WAD. In terms of challenge (not an AI just to walk all over) that's great. In terms of player experience it's frustrating as all hell.
Are you sure they really said that your honor was too low? It sounds like it was their honor that was too low. If they had 38-39 joining a plot would sent them below 25 (low honor) which they aren't very keen on.
Any chance that there's a significant reduction in the required amount of honor to join a plot coming our way? I saw some mention of fixes coming to the plot system, but no specifics, would love this. It would make the game so much more vibrant.
No, there's no plan to revise the honor cost. But some bugs making certain clans not wanting to join should be fixed as well as some improvements on how/when the AI clans take decisions to gather up more honor.
When I offered them to join the plot, it said They won't accept, and I hovered my mouse over it and it said "They Will Not Accept, My Honor is not High Enough" I'm gonna check if I have the save, so I can take a screenshot.
If this is a Grammatical error then the correct wording should be They will not accept, Their current Honor makes plotting too risky
This one gave no reason at all. Also you can see the No Heir upon Load Bug is present for each Screenshot.
Anyhow if Plotting is being tweaked that's great because as it is it's pretty hard to break free of a clan.
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I believe that's supposed to be your diplomatic target's response in first-person. As in, well, the guy telling you "my honor is not high enough".
Hopefully we see a beta update sometime soon with some game mechanics bug fixes. Perhaps the ones Captain Gars mentioned working on is what's inhibiting the AI's decision to join plots.
Hopefully we see a beta update sometime soon with some game mechanics bug fixes. Perhaps the ones Captain Gars mentioned working on is what's inhibiting the AI's decision to join plots.
I hope so as well as the honor cost for plots and other things like taking titles away is very high indeed. It should not be considered dishonorable to take titles away from an inbred, lisped, maimed, paranoid, insane vassal for the good of the clan. Hell I think I should get honor for saving face for the clan but I digress...
There is no grammatical error, all responses are in first person as in "I won't plot against my dynasty's clan" or "I have no intention to fight them at the moment"
Usually that's a sign that they would plot against the target but they don't like you enough to do it with you but since your relations in the screenshot are quite high I'm not really sure why it's not even "might accept"
All my "will not accept" indicators for Plotting have nothing listed as the reason in the tooltip, either.
Then instead of it reading "They will not accept, My current honor makes plotting too risky" Should instead read as "I will not Accept, My current honor makes plotting too risky" That way the player knows that it's the other clan. Putting they and my together and having them mean the same person is unneccesarily confusing.
I actually have a new screen shot I could add from my latest campaign, same problem, plots=useless. I am playing the Satomi, I gobbled up my equal sized neighbor, which left the single province Sakai clan, and the Koga-Ashikaga(Or some other Ashikaga variant) as borders. So I figured I'd take Sakai then work on Ashikaga with plots, or all out war if that failed. Instead the worst case scenario happened and the Uesugi gobbled them up, and about 10 other clans by 1495. So now I have the massive bloated Uesugi as my one and only neighbors (I had my son marry the Sakai daughter, and assassinated the Clan Leader and my son took over the Sakai and now they are Satomi although they have a border with me and my son is no longer acceptable as my clan heir. Very strange) So I began laying ground work for all the brave neighboring clans that stand a chance at taking on the Uesugi with me. Not a single one would join my plot saying it's "Too Weak" Even my own son in the "other" Satomi clan bordered with me says as much. Well tell me this Paradox how can my plot get stronger if people won't join because it's too weak? And don't say my son doesn't like me enough he has about an 80 like rating for me. What I thought would be my big chance flopped as well, the Ashikaga separated from the Uesugi, gaining a decent amount of their territory (about 20%) but they say the same thing despite great relations and my clan leader with a 17 diplomacy rating. "Plot is too weak"
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Give this man a beer for a concise reason why Paradox and Johan needs to hire a Specialized UI designer for ALL their games.