Inability to plot

[Blxz]

Current Shimazu game just had me lose ground in a 10 year war with the Ouchi. They are the largest clan in the game(21%) and try as I might I have been unable to plot against them. They have terrible borders and must be next to about 15 clans small and large including the Uesugi and the Yamana who are number 3 and 2 respectively. I have a +70 relation with the Yamana leader and they have no hostages or anything that should be stopping them.

What am i doing wrong in regards to plot? Why is every single clan at a 0% chance of accepting despite the benefit they would get from it?

 

[Besuchov]

If you hoover over the chance to accept you might get a hint as to way they dont want to.

 

[Blxz]

If you hoover over the chance to accept you might get a hint as to way they dont want to.

Interesting, didn't know that. Will check tomorrow, too late now. Thanks.

 

[Revshawn]

Most likely it's because they don't have enough honor.

 

[Sandam]

in my game... first try to plot: out honor is low, our honor is low, our honor is low

second try after waiting a bit: their honor to big, their honor to big, we like them more....

completely zero threat influence. horrible game design...

 

[Besuchov]

Its not so strange really that he doesnt want to commit seppuku just to make you shogun.

 

[Secret Master]

Its not so strange really that he doesnt want to commit seppuku just to make you shogun.

This has got to be my favorite post about Sengoku so far. And it is so true, too.

 

[Hamann]

I'm having difficult in my game to get a plot going against the Uesugi, too many small neighbours! I can't get relations up fast enough with all of them and get the plot going, as soon as I get the fifth inside it, the first one decides he is better fighting some of his small neighbours instead of uniting against the big kid in the block! That, and the biggest clan in the plot left and won't join back because: "We (the Satake) are already at war with them (the Uesugi)". And they are in for a beating

I'm getting desperate, once the Uesugi annexes the Satake, only the Kono will be able to do something against them :X

 

[Slaxl]

I don't understand, I can't see any percentage indicator, my neighbour with 63 honour says with his honour it's too risky and that's it. He's got plenty of honour to spare, what's the problem?

 

[Hamann]

About the honor, I'm not sure how much honor it takes to execute the plot, but if it is the same as declaring war, then it is 20. In order to avoid dropping below 25 and get all the penalties, I'm guessing the AI only accepts to join plots when they are over 45, and maybe 50 if they want to leave a buffer zone.

Although this seems reasonable enough, maybe the AI could be taught to consider the decisions to gift the emperor, somewhat including money as a fraction of honor in the equation.

 

[Blxz]

Well the shimazu clan is no more, Ouchi attacked and i gave up once my armies were annhilated and half of Kyushu had fallen.

As for why the Yamana don't plot, the little indicator says "I don't plan on attacking them now". Well, not sure who else the yamana were going to attack, being completely surrounded by the very spread out Ouchi clan. It seems that despite myself having max honour and friendships being very high the only people I could get to join my plot were the little one island province to the far northwest.

Is this seriously working as designed? I understand that you don't want plots to be a "click here to win" button but a little more transperency might be helpful and even a better idea of potential threat detection. The Yamana in this case had FAR more to gain from a plot than me, I was only looking at 3 provinces in Kyushu and maybe if things went well, Shikoku. The Yamana had their biggest rival to take down and had him in a very weak position strategically with lots of land that I had no chance of taking immediately as well as a central position to fight a scattered enemy.

Very confused and a little disappointed that I can't join in the fun of plotting no matter how much I try. Advice?

EDIT: Not to mention that the Ouchi were in a crippling war with the Uesugi and some other mid-sized clan near Kyoto during the entire time I was plotting. It was a delicious looking back ripe for stabbing.

 

[NexusSix]

Yeh I gotta admit I gave my Gomo game a wave farewell followed by a long sigh.

I had our leige down to 14 honor through ninja's , had good relations, betrothal and gift to the local duke or w/e he is with vassels who was not part of the Dynasty. Had another vassel with -50 them + 40 me.
And they were both content to just sit being vassels under an honorless man !!
Now I am not to hot on my Japanesse history but I know a man without honor would pretty much be killed or set upon.

Kinda infuriating.... that + my heir bug.

 

[Sensational]

Haven't had a single plot carry through so far, breaking down the blob seems very hard to do through plotting, even tried cheating to spam gifts, that combined with using my Guard to spready dissent didn't end up being enough. They just like the blob that will conquer them all just a 'lil bit more than me, forever, no matter what. Also tried breaking free from Uesueueigig as the Ashikaga bro, Masamoto (I'm great with Japanese names) but couldn't make it happen, although that might've been because Nagao something also broke free first.

Maybe I'm just doing it wrong but I have to say I really love the idea, the concept of plots, just not feeling the implementation. To be honest, it's really not "fun", if I was a dev for a day I'd suggest a more passive sort of system like the HoI 3/Vic 2 influence systems. I.e. "I want to do this" > "I want you to join me" > Set influence slider on plot buddy. In my mind that system would be more smooth, but that's just me. Not to mention it's day 1, maybe I'll learn to love it.

 

[Enravota]

I too cannot successfully plot. Tried a game as Chosokabe, trying to form my own clan (with a cunning plot) before the Kono or Yamana wipe me out of the map, but cannot figure out how to make other vassals to join me. They either find my honour insufficient or that our Hosokawa liege has too much :ninja:.

 

[Hamann]

Ha! Behold! I, the mighty leader of the Satomi clan shall assemble the armies of the tribes to fight against the evil tirant Uesugi!!! Finally managed to get my plot up and running, lots of marriages, gifting and a bit of luck!



Don't give up people! Work your diplomacy, research the enemy vassals carefully, hope for the best!

 

[TheChronoMaster]

Good luck -- even with such a successful plot, you're gonna have a hard time in that fight. Pray they go for your allies first.

 

[Hamann]

Hehe, I'm going to sleep now but I did speed the game a bit to see more or less what would happen, turns out two daimyos break a month after war is declared, the Uesugi will be utterly crushed!

 

[oddible]

You know, I don't really have as big a problem with the reluctance of other leaders to plot - that seems rational to me. What bothers me is the interface design that causes insane repetitive stress and carpal tunnel clicking on everyone to see if they want to plot every few years. The Plot screen should have been designed to show all people who share borders with the plot target and list their current willingness to join the plot. So when you see you have 1 or 2 you can just get them in and start.

 

[Wilsonrtf]

Since this question relates to this thread, I am curious about how long it take for gifts - once given - to become effective again in relation to the gifted character. It seems that sending multiple consecutive gifts do not work, for only the first gift raises the relationship value.

 

[TheChronoMaster]

The plot screen would be much improved with the ability to simply click on a demesne to see that guy's willingness to plot.


...Heck, some kind of plot map would be fantastic.