In the upcoming patch, will you actually disable pacts, shattered retreat, etc?

[klopkr]

I don't mind defensive pacts anymore. Shattered retreat would be fine if it was more polished like EU4s but the fact that i can't shatter retreat correctly among other things makes it kind of a problem. Not to mention the enemy pretty much crosses the world still.

 

[Enriador]

Now that I think about it, I hope pre-RoI civil wars and automatic Call to Arms become optional game rules as well.

 

[Tatterhood]

Now that I think about it, I hope pre-RoI civil wars and automatic Call to Arms become optional game rules as well.

Automatic call to arms is just gone, apparently. The patch notes in the latest DD say it can be restored by mod, but nothing about it being a game rule.

 

[Panicsferd]

Automatic call to arms is just gone, apparently. The patch notes in the latest DD say it can be restored by mod, but nothing about it being a game rule.

I remember hearing that as well, and I think tho there were talks I heard where if you decline your allies call to arms you will suffer a prestige hit or something.

I just started out, just got CK2 recently and so far I'm not a big fan of the defensive pacts and the shattered retreat - so I'm going to disable them both - at least the defence pact and maybe the shattered retreat if you can still get achievements for it.

 

[DukeDayve]

I probably won't turn off shattered retreats. It does stupid things sometimes (not often since it recieved some fixes) but overall I like it. I mean... armies didn't often get totally and utterly smashed in one battle in the period of this game, did they? They usually took a walloping and then retreated and regrouped, right?

 

[drakon136]

I remember hearing that as well, and I think tho there were talks I heard where if you decline your allies call to arms you will suffer a prestige hit or something.

I just started out, just got CK2 recently and so far I'm not a big fan of the defensive pacts and the shattered retreat - so I'm going to disable them both - at least the defence pact and maybe the shattered retreat if you can still get achievements for it.

Refusing call to arms breaks the alliance and gives the same prestige penalty as breaking truce. Also, both defensive pacts and shattered retreat can be disabled without disabling achievements.

 

[Panicsferd]

Refusing call to arms breaks the alliance and gives the same prestige penalty as breaking truce. Also, both defensive pacts and shattered retreat can be disabled without disabling achievements.

That sounds good, I knew about disable the defensive pacts didn't disable achievements, but wasn't sure on shattered retreat.

 

[MishaTX]

I briefly tried shattered retreat after it dropped, and then hastily retreated myself into an earlier version of the game because I absolutely hated it. (Much praise to PDox, by the way, for having that as an option. If only all other devs would follow their example!)

It's not that I hated the idea, I actually love it as it changes wars from "kill enemy stack dead, then systematically siege down his helpless holdings without a care in the world" to something else. I hated the implementation. Particularly how beating the enemy army, no matter how badly, barely scratched him, leaving you with no choice but to chase him all over creation for a few years.

In my ever so humble opinion, he should at least be neutered for a while as a threat, leaving you with the choice of either chasing him down or ravaging his realm, knowing that if you do so for too long, you might have a problem when it's time to face him again.

But that was a long time ago. Has that changed? Because if it has, then I'm definitely going to give it another go.

 

[Knotz]

Nope, shattered retreat feels more 'fair' than being able to grind an enemy army into dust after a single loss and I don't usually map paint so defensive pacts aren't really a huge issue for me either, the one game where expanding a lot featured was featured with the mechanic I still made an empire spanning the entire Middle East. And that was done while waiting for the threat level to drop not expanding despite it.

 

[SigurdStormhand]

It's interesting to see the fairly positive response after all the rage the conclave patch features got in the months after release.

Just really poor execution on release I guess + people having time to be won over. A lot of that rage might have been based on the fact they were both from EUIV.

I think it has a lot to do with the Devs' reaction to the negative criticism. At this point most of what was introduced in the Conclave-Patch has either actually been removed or has been made entirely optional, even the opinion nerf is being softened somewhat. It's quite easy to appreciate the idea behind these changes and mechanics if you never have to use them.

So, it's not that people like the changes Conclave made now, they just no longer have a reason to be outraged by them (because they aren't being forced to use them).

 

[VoodooEconomist]

With automatic CTA reversed, defensive pacts rebalanced, retreat behaving better I'm fine and won't disable those

 

[RelVleDy]

What exactly is dynamic de jure drift anyways?

 

[Lord Fullmetal]

What exactly is dynamic de jure drift anyways?

It's when a duchy becomes part of an other kingdom after a 100 years. The same can happen for a kingdom becoming part of an other empire.

 

[atraphoenix]

I have already modded coalitions into Holy Leagues. There must be Holy Leagues that had survived during CK2 timeframe, not coalitions, not defensive pacts. I am not a achievement-obsessive player. I just have 10 of them with 800+ hours. Shattered Retreat is a double edged sword but fans of the mods like me won't have any problem with them. CK2 is not EU but I like Population additions into the game unfortunately just for the nomads - I still try to mod it to add to feudal as well.

"What exactly is dynamic de jure drift anyways?"

If a Kingdom controls a whole duchy which is a part another kingdom for 100 years, that duchy becomes de jure part of the controlling new Kingdom. It is same for the kingdoms, like mostly I play with ERE and conquer whole of kingdom of Italy and it becomes a part of my Empire after 100 years.

 

[Griff Lancer]

I never blob hard enough to be bothered by defensive pacts.
I actually like shattered retreat.
The one thing I might disable though is reforming pagans, to keep the game a bit more historical.
Guess I'm the weird one...

 

[Ruisuki]

I seem to remember shattered retreat being turned off wont affect achievements, turning off pacts will. Which is fine by me I have grown to hate shattered retreat but can more or less deal with pacts.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

I seem to remember shattered retreat being turned off wont affect achievements, turning off pacts will. Which is fine by me I have grown to hate shattered retreat but can more or less deal with pacts.

It's been confirmed that turned off pacts will not disable achievos.

 

[gmoney]

Improving shattered retreat could be done fairly easily- Higher attrition while retreating and slower morale recovery. This would slow the recovery of an army and sometimes it would make more sense to disband the army and raise the levies again rather than wait for the army to recover.

DP are a different beast. In theory they are ok-no one wants to see their neighbors get too strong. But at the same time they should be glad you are beating down the heathens. The best solution for this problem as I see it would be to have each religious group track you separately. For instance if you are Christian King and holy war against Pagans then your threat to pagans would be high. Christian Rulers would have some concerns about your growing strength but since you are attacking heathens it doesn't bother them too much. Other religious types would simply look at your growing strength similar to now. So basically you'd gain little threat from your coreligionists, Higher threat from the targeted religion, and normal threat level to all other religious types.

The same +/- threat level could be done with claims. if the claim is dejure then you get less threat but if you fabricate claims it causes more threat-after all if you are taking what is 'rightfully yours' then you should get less threat than if you are fabricating claims to steal your neighbors land.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Improving shattered retreat could be done fairly easily- Higher attrition while retreating and slower morale recovery. This would slow the recovery of an army and sometimes it would make more sense to disband the army and raise the levies again rather than wait for the army to recover.

DP are a different beast. In theory they are ok-no one wants to see their neighbors get too strong. But at the same time they should be glad you are beating down the heathens. The best solution for this problem as I see it would be to have each religious group track you separately. For instance if you are Christian King and holy war against Pagans then your threat to pagans would be high. Christian Rulers would have some concerns about your growing strength but since you are attacking heathens it doesn't bother them too much. Other religious types would simply look at your growing strength similar to now. So basically you'd gain little threat from your coreligionists, Higher threat from the targeted religion, and normal threat level to all other religious types.

The same +/- threat level could be done with claims. if the claim is dejure then you get less threat but if you fabricate claims it causes more threat-after all if you are taking what is 'rightfully yours' then you should get less threat than if you are fabricating claims to steal your neighbors land.

The point of a fabricated claim is that you make a claim the land is rightfully yours though. There's no real difference between a fabricated claim and an inherited one.

 

[redsimonDE]

It is possible that my setup will be as seen below. Retreats and Pacts made me stop playing CKII (I do like all fantasy content though). If they have been rebalanced I might give the Pacts a new try. Otherwise:

[ ] Shattered Retreats
[ ] Defensive Pacts
[X] Fantasy Content