• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
It's interesting how racialized slavery seems to be in this Assyria; I wonder if a sort of 'brown supremacist' ideology might develop where Middle Easterners are held to be racially superior to Africans. Slavery does seem to be a bigger part of the region's economy than OTL with the references to plantations, and with access to the Indian Ocean Assyria is well placed to gain some East African colonies
 
  • 1
Reactions:
1438-1457 – Rebirth
1438-1457 – Rebirth

1659731104374.png

As the empire of the Five Kingdoms emerged from the war of succession and its union with Armenia, the question of the realm’s sprawling religious and cultural diversity hung over it. King Aboulgharib, raised a member of the Oriental Orthodox Armenian Church of his father but a convert to the Church of the East since taking power in Assyria, was especially eager to build the foundations of religious harmony across his many Kingdoms. The solution he pursued was conciliarism – the establishment of a dialogue among the Christian sects of the Near East. Ambitiously, the King brought together Christian religious authorities from across the realm at the Council of Edessa in 1439. While some in the royal circles spoke excitedly about communion and Christian unity, the council was largely dominated by ill-tempered theological disputes and cultural aggravation.

However, Edessa did establish two key principles that would form the foundations of the Assyrian approach to faith under the Armenian dynasty – territoriality and tolerance. The first of these was the most important, as it recognised different sects as the established Church – with the legal, social and political privileges that came with that status – in different Kingdoms. The Church of the East was to be senior in Assyria and the Arabian territories. The Armenian Church in the northern Kingdom, the Catholic Church would be the main authority in Philistia while in Syria, the most religiously diverse of the Five Kingdoms, a compromise between the poles of Old Orthodoxy, Paulicians and Nestorians was sought. Cementing this system of territoriality would be legal gauruntees from the centre of imperial power in Nineveh to the right of all Christian to practice their faith.

1659731126452.png

Excluded from this settlement were the Muslims. Indeed, the Assyrian crown sponsored extensive missionary by the Church of the East aimed at further reducing the Muslim communities of Mesopotamia and the Persian Gulf. These efforts, larger in scale than any proselytising campaign for generations, sparked a period of unrest in both regions – with Muslim rebels in Oman briefly bringing Muscat under siege in 1446 while Kurdish tribes in Ilam plundered much of the countryside around Baghdad before being pushed back. In an effort to cool the tensions among the Muslims, the crown encouraged the Church to pull back from these campaigns by the early 1450s.

1659731153204.png

Elsewhere, in 1445 Aboulgharib won a grand diplomatic coup when he arranged the marriage of his daughter, Katrinide, to the young King Simon of Egypt. The union of the two families brought Assyria into a close alliance with the Egyptians that would have great consequences for the balance of power in the Near East – at once securing the realm’s southwestern flank while opening it up to Europe.

1659731174853.png

The Assyrians soon leant on their new friendship to garner diplomatic support for a predatory invasion of the Duchy of Ascalon. The Palestinian coast had successfully resisted Assyrian advances during the fourteenth century Palestinian Wars, and spent most of the subsequent century and a half in an uneasy relationship with the Holy Roman Empire – at times pursuing independence and at others recognising Imperial sovereignty. Going through a period of independent-mindedness in the middle of the fifteenth century, the Assyrians pounced, overwhelming Latin defences and capturing the most important bastions of the Duchy in the space of a few short years. With Egypt threatening to join the fight should the Emperor intervene – threatening his loyal possessions around the Red Sea – the Germans reluctantly allowed the coast to fall from their grip. Aboulgharib had completed the unfinished business of Niv the Hammer and unified all of Philistia under Nineveh’s rule.

1659731204813.png

Assyrian aggression was not limited to the Levant during this period, as Aboulgharib sought to assert his authority as nominal King of Georgia over the lands to the north that his father had lost some decades previously. While most of Georgia was safely under the control of the Alans, too powerful and independent to be effectively influenced, the small Principality of Kartil – the only independent Georgian polity – was far more open to Assyrian advances. In 1451, much to the aggravation of the Alans and their Byzantine backers, the Kartilian Prince Teimuraz swore an oath of allegiance to Aboulgharib, recognising his rightful position as King of Georgian, marking the first time the ve Zhamo family had been able to exert de facto control anywhere in their northern Kingdom for thirty years.

Assyrian interests in the Caucuses further wore down the already fraying relationship between Constantinople and Nineveh. Raiding by Anatolian Cumans into Armenia and Syria had been a facet of life throughout the Medieval – with constant watchful having been required to keep their riders at bay since the thirteenth century. The re-exertion of Byzantine power into central Anatolia in the fifteenth century, that saw the Greeks establish control through the full length of the Assyrian border and reduce the Cuman Khanate to a rump state, had temporarily reduced raiding to a fraction of its previous frequency. This had led to a relaxing of security around the border regions, only for an unexpected resurgence of Cuman activity in the 1450s to sow devastation around the region. As the Assyrians demanded the Byzantines bring the raiders to heel, threatening a punitive expedition to pursue rampaging bands into Roman territory, the two empire came to the brink of war before tensions were cooled. Nonetheless, Constantinople had established a new pattern – showing a willingness to needle their Near Eastern rival by relaxing their grip over the rapacious tribes under their rule at will.

1659731248191.png

Although the incessant border raiding of the Anatolian Cumans depressed parts of Armenia and Syria, the mid-fifteenth century marked the beginning of a bountiful economic period of the wider realm. This prosperity had its roots in three key changes: stability, climate change and changing trading patterns. Despite the shocking end of the Qatwa dynasty and the brutal succession struggle that followed, from the beginning of the 1430s Assyria entered a period of uninterrupted peace that it had not known for more than half a century. This not only provided a basis for society to flourish, but also allowed for more effective governance and a clamp down upon banditry. At the same time, the warm and dry climatic conditions that had taken hold over the Near East around the turn of the century began to fade – allowing for a halting of the debilitating effects of desertification and an agricultural resurgence. Finally, there was a great expansion of trade. In the east, efforts by the Assyrian fleet – based in Muscat and Basra – to free the Persian Gulf from piracy and extend their operations out into the Arabian Sea allowed for a noticeable increase in commercial traffic through the Indian Ocean trade routes that gave life to the cities of Mesopotamia. In the west, improved relations with Egypt led to the concession of an Assyrian Quarter – mostly inhabited by Jews and Assyrians – in Alexandria, the most important eastern trading entrepôt for the Italian merchants who dominated Mediterranean trade.

1659731264651.png

Something quite special was happening in the cities of the Near East in the middle of the century. Awash with wealth, there had been an equally brilliant explosion in learning and enquiry. Undoubtedly part of the stimulus for this had been a decision of the King during the 1430s and 1440s to push for scribes to translate religious texts and law codes between the major languages of the Five Kingdoms – Syriac, Arabic, Greek, Armenian and Latin – in support of his policies of counciliarism. This had led to an avalanche of cross translations of all manner of other texts, scientific, historical, literary, philosophical. While there had always been a great deal of intermingling among the different cultural traditions of the region, a great deal of knowledge had, for centuries, been siloed behind the barriers of language which were increasingly being broken down. The result was an unprecedented flourishing of intellectual life, with long forgotten ideas revived and entirely new ones born – works of philosophical humanistic genius and remarkable scientific advances.

Perhaps the most visible symbol of this Renaissance was in art and architecture, where the new wealth of the Assyrian realm fuelled projects on a scale previously unimagined. One of the most prominent of these was a rebuilding of much of Nineveh under the auspices of the King. With a fashion for reviving ancient Mesopotamian styles and history, as well as the glories of Greece and Rome, Aboulgharib constructed a Hanging Garden to serve as his royal gardens in the heart of the city and began construction on a great domed cathedral that would surpass St Ta’mhas’ - previously the largest church east of the Hagia Sophia. Accompanying these efforts in the capital, where projects sponsored by local elites in Baghdad, Basra, Aleppo, Antioch, Damascus and beyond that would continue for decades.

With this emerging golden age in full flow in the middle of the century, King Aboulgharib died peacefully amid his glories in 1457, leaving his empire and weighty legacy in the hands of his only son, Taniel.
 
  • 8Like
  • 2Love
Reactions:
New friends, new lands, new approach to religion and the birth of a Golden Age. It all seems to be going suspiciously well! Let us see if that shall last!

Having Mesopotamia be the birthplace of the Renaissance seems to be a very common effect of having a CK2 converted game - which usually leaves ME the richest provinces at the start of the game, and therefore with the best chance of triggering the Renaissance. Despite that, I can see how a bit of stability, influx of wealth and pursuit of intercultural dialogue could spark a revolutionary resurgence in intellectual thought.


Nice little overview.

It does seem that Europe will be an absolute tinderbox when the Reformation arrives at this glance.

All in good time for the Reformation! Europe has a real lack of big dogs at the start of this portion of the AAR - with the HRE and Thuringia the largest, but at the same time wrapped around one another and too splintered to be hegemonic. That could make things a bit of a battle royale.

It may be hoped from this truly staggering degree of religious and ethnic diversity that Assyria will be a pioneer in building multicultural institutions

Very prescient on this one, with Assyria pursuing a large degree of intercultural dialogue right out of the gates here under her first Armenian King. The question is whether this turns out to be another short term shift, or becomes more imbedded.

Very excited to see where this goes next.

Glad to have you aboard!

Assyria has to be diplomatically savvy, with its position between the mighty Timurid empire and a resurgent Byzantine empire. I wouldn't be surprised by a partition.

Did you use any mod to stop the eu4 blob? in the AARs that go through this game, mega blobs stand out as the main pain on the map.

Our geopolitical position is really quite boxed in. Despite being a big power in our own right, we have two of the other top 5 or so empires in 1444 right on our borders (the Timurids rivaling the Ming for total development). That will make things very tricky, especially if we can't ensure good relations with at least one of them.

As for blobbing. In CK2 my main tool was to set rebels to be extremely powerful, which even led to me as the player losing to them on a number of occassions and made things very hard for the AI - especially when going into areas of the wrong culture/religion. In EU4 I haven't taken any specific measures. I'm not opposed to edits the keep to the map at the time of conversions to keep things in check though (although in the case of this one, that wasn't necessary as there weren't any real megablobs).

Ready to go in Part 2.

And we're off!

This version of the Reformation should prove interesting.

Are the other kingdoms of Assyria represented as vassals?

In game I just kept them all a part of the same state. It would perhaps have made some sense to mod everyone in as PUs to follow the story most closely, but too late to go back now! :p

Am I right in reading the map to say that the HRE is a single, unified state?

The HRE is a single unified state. It has however popped out a very large rival for itself in Thuringia - which rules most of the Low Countries, Lotharingia, Saxony and other parts of the Germanic world. I've not actually seen a conversion where the HRE successfully converts over as an EU4 style collection of states, which would be more fun.

As is usual, I fell rather behind in part one. But the beginning of part two was a good excuse to catch up!

I will have to slow down the pace of the updates so everyone can keep up to date! :D Glad you are back up to 'present' in the story :).

It's interesting how racialized slavery seems to be in this Assyria; I wonder if a sort of 'brown supremacist' ideology might develop where Middle Easterners are held to be racially superior to Africans. Slavery does seem to be a bigger part of the region's economy than OTL with the references to plantations, and with access to the Indian Ocean Assyria is well placed to gain some East African colonies

Now this is certainly very interesting, and slavery and race in Assyria is something we will get the chance to delve into much more in this part of the AAR. Just how big a factor in Assyrian life it become could well depend a lot on how we interact with the Indian Ocean world in the centuries ahead.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
You were able to get the Renaissance to appear in Nineveh? Impressive. How did you do it, by spamming development in your capital?

I highly appreciate the narrative writing style of this AAR; I would like to follow this as well. :)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Highly suspicious, this is going all too well. ;)
 
  • 3
Reactions:
If this religious situation persists one wonders if, when discussion are being had, the moderator/conventor/chair/whatever ends up being a non-Christian, simply on the grounds that he is not one of the many sides at play. Fairly big "if" there.

The German retreat is welcome. The Greek Romans, well there is this saying about Greek's bearing gifts.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
It's nice to see religious toleration.

The Renaissance has begun! This is excellent...
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Things are going remarkably--suspiciously?--well right now.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Assyria seems to be in a stable position, though the presence of the Timurids and the Greek Romans (and some directly owned German Roman provinces?) on its borders means that it has to be very careful about any military moves.

Having Mesopotamia be the birthplace of the Renaissance seems to be a very common effect of having a CK2 converted game - which usually leaves ME the richest provinces at the start of the game, and therefore with the best chance of triggering the Renaissance.
Do conversions get rid of the requirement that the Renaissance start in Italy?
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Assyria seems to be in a stable position, though the presence of the Timurids and the Greek Romans (and some directly owned German Roman provinces?) on its borders means that it has to be very careful about any military moves.


Do conversions get rid of the requirement that the Renaissance start in Italy?
There's an option which forces it to spawn there, I think. But it's off by default.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
I had the Renaissance spawn in Prague in a multiplayer game converted from CK3 where I played as Bohemia (eventually became Holy Roman Emperor) and developed Prague as much as possible. (However, my friend played Matilda of Canossa into Italy into the Roman Empire, and Rome was just as developed as Prague.)

I vaguely remember the converter option eoncommander mentioned to force Renaissance to appear only in Italy.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
The lower Tigris/Euphrates plantation style farming how does that correspond to our time line. By plantation, I am referring to large landowners having tracts that require low-priced labor as to independent farm-owners who do manual labor themselves with limited hired help. IIRC, there was Indian Ocean slave trade from East Africa to India and slave-trade from the Eurasian steppes as local warlords sold captives. Thank you for getting us started with the calm before the storm will rage.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
King Aboulgharib died peacefully amid his glories in 1457, leaving his empire and weighty legacy in the hands of his only son, Taniel.
Aboulgharib - an actual Renaissance man!
Having Mesopotamia be the birthplace of the Renaissance seems to be a very common effect of having a CK2 converted game - which usually leaves ME the richest provinces at the start of the game, and therefore with the best chance of triggering the Renaissance.
Interesting. Given how fractured Europe seems, it makes sense for it to come in Mesopotamia.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
The Renaissance spawning in Nineveh! How interesting! Hopefully this will be a boon for the growing empire.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
1457-1486 – The Ocean Blue
1457-1486 – The Ocean Blue

1660079253445.png

Taniel succeeded his father at the age of thirty six and would rule over Assyria for a further three decades, overseeing the continued flowering of her Renaissance. While art, science, culture and the economy thrived as never before, Assyria would strike out. In character, the King appeared to be partly symbolic of the changing times. While his father had been a gruff warrior prince, Taniel was at home with poets, artists, playwrights and philosophers. Yet for all his claim to be at one with the sophisticated culture of Nineveh, Baghdad and Aleppo, in other aspects the new King remained a decidedly medieval monarch. For all the changes effecting the Five Kingdoms, this was not yet a modern society.

1660079319122.png

During the first decade of Taniel’s reign Assyria was part of a tripartite rivalry in the Caucuses alongside the Byzantines and Timurids, as the three powerful empires each attempted to outmanoeuvre the other and extend their influence. In 1458, Taniel forced his father’s recently acquired Georgian vassal of Kartil to cede the ethnically Armenian city of Yerevan to his direct overlordship, with the territory placed within the administrative structures of the Kingdom of Armenia. Two years later war broke out in the region as the Timurids invaded Alania, bringing them into a war with the Byzantines. The two powers struggled in the mountains for four years, yet the Timurids proved far stronger – annexing eastern Georgia, including Tbilisi, and the western shore of the Caspian Sea from the Alans. The Alanian Kingdom had been bankrupted by the war, while its ruler felt badly let down by the failure of the Byzantines to sufficiently support him in his fight with the Timurids. Distancing himself from Constantinople, he sought to raise funds and improve relations with his southern neighbour by selling the province of Kars to Nineveh – thereby giving Assyria direct land access to its vassal in Kartil.

1660079345461.png

Ever since Nahir the Bear’s Crusade to southern Indian at the beginning of the thirteenth century, Assyria had been plugged into the wider Indian Ocean world – its traders bringing spices and silks from East Asia towards European markets and ivory, gold and, above all, slaves from East Africa to the Middle East. In the fifteenth century, with advances in seafaring technology, a greater emphasis on anti-piracy activity by the Assyrian state and a general rise in prosperity, Assyria’s position in this world had steadily grown. Ships was Basra and Muscat increasingly cut out middle men to make the journeys to Asian and African markets themselves, while pushing out rivals.

In the second half of the century it would take a turn towards a new phase in its relationship to the region, not only seeking to trade but to control territory. This began at the beginning of the with King Taniel’s decision to support the plans of a Basran merchant named Dimi Bobawai to establish a settlement on the isolated and uninhibited Seychelles islands – sitting north of Madagascar and east of the African mainland. Here, Bobawai built a staging post for slave trading with the Swahili coast, while also starting plantation agriculture on the islands themselves – importing small populations of slaves from Africa to till the soil and alongside Arab and Assyrian freemen colonists. These were the modest beginnings of an empire to come.

1660079373034.png

Despite the emergent Golden Age taking shape in Assyria, many within the Church of the East were gripped by a sense of insecurity and weakness. The rise of the Armenian dynasty, and the negotiated religious settlement of Taniel’s father, had undoubtedly reduced the Church’s authority, while its demographic weight within the empire had steadily declined alongside its expansion. These sentiments had undoubtedly been strengthened by Aboulgharib’s suspension of missionary efforts among the Muslims of Babylonia and Arabia. Taniel, having grown up with the faith unlike his father, was far more zealous than his predecessor and gave his redoubled support for a new wave of persecutions and attempts at conversion aimed against his Muslim subjects, often backed by the strength of military force. Further to this, Taniel passed an ordinance banning Muslims from owning property in the Seychelles or any other overseas possession of the Assyrian crown, while giving the Nestorian Church special rights in these lands.

1660079406321.png

Assyria’s poor treatment of its Muslims elicited condemnation from her Islamic neighbours, and, most importantly, stimulated the rivalry with the mighty empire to its east. After half a century of peace between, the Timurids invaded in 1477, swearing cast the Christians out of Arabia and the Gulf. The hammer blow of the Timurid invasion would be directed principally against two main targets – the twin centres of Assyrian maritime power in Basra and Oman. The assault on the more easterly of these two targets met with quick success. The Timurid fleet clashed with the Assyrians at the Battle of Jask near the Strait of Hormuz and the Assyrians were crippled by the mutiny of a large contingent of Omani Muslim sailors. This allowed thousands of Persians to flood across the Strait into Oman, where the local Sunni Muslim populace greeted them as liberators.

1660079430057.png

While the occupation of Oman and the defeat of her Indian Ocean fleet was a bitter blow, effectively marooning Assyria from Oceanic trade, these losses proved an exception to the general pattern of the conflict. The largest battles of the war were concentrated around the fortified port city of Basra, where the two empire fought a series of long bloody battles between 1477 and 1479 when the Timurids finally withdrew. After initially wavering, the Egyptians had thrown their lot in with their Assyrian ally during this conflict and sent a sizeable contingent to Mesopotamia who aided in the battles over the region. During this same period, Assyrian armies met with impressive successes on other fronts – its armies overrunning the lightly defended Caucuses to capture Baku and Tabriz in the north and making inroads into the Zagros Mountains. After its Arabian invasion was halted in battle near Qatar in 1480, the Khan finally admitted defeat and agreed to a white truce.

1660079448239.png

The defeat of the Timurid invasion drastically reduced their influence in the Arabian peninsula, effectively granting Assyria and her Egyptian ally a free hand to strike against the Muslim states of the region. This was an opportunity they eagerly seized upon in a short war fought against the Sulayman Caliph and the Salifid Emirate between 1483 and 1485. Without their powerful sponsor, the Arabs were too weak to resist effectively and were forced to cede lands in Egypt to Alexandria and surrender both the holy city of Medina and a precious outlet to the Red Sea to Assyria.

1660079468630.png

Perhaps the most important innovations of Taniel’s period on the Assyrian throne was the development of a fledging political institution – the Majlis. Throughout its Medieval history, the nobilities of the various Assyrian realms had maintained various mechanisms, informal and formal, of exerting influence over governance and the crown – but they had never done so in a consistent way across the entire empire. Born out of the ideas of Conciliarism that his father had adopted towards the Churches, the King arranged a gathering of nobles and clergy from all of the Five Kingdoms of his realm in Nineveh for the first time in 1460. Primarily focussed on resolving internal disputes among the bickering internal power brokers in the empire – this assembly coming two years after the forcible transfer of Yerevan into the Armenian Kingdom, amid a host of territorial, religious and political disputes – the nobles soon took advantage of their concentration to push for extensions of their rights, privileges and power.

Further councils would be called later in Taniel’s reign in 1469, 1475 and most importantly of all in the aftermath of victory over the Arabs in 1486. This final assembling of the Majlis had been called with a very specific purpose in mind. While Taniel had sired two sons, both had died without issue while the King had no male siblings of his own. With Taniel now deep into his sixties and in worsening health, he hoped to avoid the sort of bloody war of succession that had followed the end of the House of Qatwa. Taniel supported the candidacy of his nephew, the young King Stefanos of Egypt, had hoped to smooth his path to power by securing the consent of the Majlis. Naturally, a foreign monarch, and a Catholic no less, was a disturbing prospect for many in the Assyrian elite and the assembly was deeply divided. Although respect for the old King won a majority over, the Majlis failed to reach clear agreement – with a recalcitrant Syrian faction favouring the claim of one Mihail Andali, a member of the minor nobility with a distant connection to Qatwa blood through one of the daughters of the fourteenth century King Nechunya I.

When Taniel died in the spring of 1486, bringing to an end the shortlived Armenian dynasty, the issue of his succession remained unresolved and conflict unavoidable.
 
Last edited:
  • 7Like
  • 2Love
Reactions:
Oh no, an inheritance struggle at a difficult difficult time. Taniel has overseen Assyria through some tough struggles, and see it survive, but it seems Taniel alas failed the most important duty - succession. And Assyria pay well pay for it - for I doubt her enemies will fail to take advantage.

The Seychelles seem like they might also be an important step-stone to larger and richer things.
 
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Just as you all thought nothing could stop glorious Renaissance Assyria, our highly successful but cruelly short lived Armenian dynasty has reached a premature end after just two Kings. We are due to come under a PU with Egypt, but this is not an outcome without dispute ....

You were able to get the Renaissance to appear in Nineveh? Impressive. How did you do it, by spamming development in your capital?

I highly appreciate the narrative writing style of this AAR; I would like to follow this as well. :)

Because of the conversion from CK2 (and I suppose this also depends on the start date you picked) Mesopotamia reached EU4 as the highest development part of the world - so was a heavy favourite to have the Renaissance spawn. This is perhaps the inverse of when I played the Jewish Poland game, which made all the provinces of eastern Europe ultra low dev and made that country especially unstable and weak in early game.

Highly suspicious, this is going all too well. ;)

Indeed, of course the Armenians had to kick the bucket without an heir just as things were getting into full swing!

Don't worry, I'm sure the laser-Timurids will arrive soon enough.

The laser-Timurids came, and they were seen away! I was genuinely surprised how relatively comfortable that particular war ended up being, as I am generally quite bad at EU4 combat. The trick was making sure we had a good line of forts on the eastern frontier and then clumping all my armies together to take them out when they tried to siege anywhere too long. This didn't work in Oman, but most of those provinces were pretty poor anyway and I could afford to sacrifice them in the name of slowing the invaders down and forcing the WP. We will see if things remain so easy going forward!

If this religious situation persists one wonders if, when discussion are being had, the moderator/conventor/chair/whatever ends up being a non-Christian, simply on the grounds that he is not one of the many sides at play. Fairly big "if" there.

The German retreat is welcome. The Greek Romans, well there is this saying about Greek's bearing gifts.

This whole religious dynamic, and indeed the emerging pro-parliamentarianism, in the realm is all going to be drastically challenged by whatever follows the latest succession crisis. Will we get a foreign monarch of alien faith? Will they accomodate themselves in the way the Armenians did? Will a domestic candidate come out on top? Will they require foriegn support in order to do so? What will any of this mean for those evolving structures and the future of the Renaissance in Assyria?

It's nice to see religious toleration.

The Renaissance has begun! This is excellent...
Things are going remarkably--suspiciously?--well right now.

It was all going so well! Let's not let the succession wreck it! :eek: ...

We shall see how we come out on the other end of this.

Assyria seems to be in a stable position, though the presence of the Timurids and the Greek Romans (and some directly owned German Roman provinces?) on its borders means that it has to be very careful about any military moves.


Do conversions get rid of the requirement that the Renaissance start in Italy?
There's an option which forces it to spawn there, I think. But it's off by default.

You were very right that we had to be wary of those powerful empires all around us - but proved our mettle at war with the Timurids. Now after several decades of internal peace and unity, we are faced with another existential question that could rip the Five Kingdoms apart and undo all that good work.

I didn't actually know there was an option to force the spawn in Italy. I will keep that in mind if I ever do another grand campaign, as it doesn't always make sense in every story for it to spawn in the Middle East (or even India) as converted games usually try to push.

I had the Renaissance spawn in Prague in a multiplayer game converted from CK3 where I played as Bohemia (eventually became Holy Roman Emperor) and developed Prague as much as possible. (However, my friend played Matilda of Canossa into Italy into the Roman Empire, and Rome was just as developed as Prague.)

I vaguely remember the converter option eoncommander mentioned to force Renaissance to appear only in Italy.

I'm yet to get CK3, so I'm not sure if the converter there will have the same dynamics - although I've done a good few conversion from CK2 over the years (the first way back in 2013! The Egypto-Norse if anyone is wondering :p).

The lower Tigris/Euphrates plantation style farming how does that correspond to our time line. By plantation, I am referring to large landowners having tracts that require low-priced labor as to independent farm-owners who do manual labor themselves with limited hired help. IIRC, there was Indian Ocean slave trade from East Africa to India and slave-trade from the Eurasian steppes as local warlords sold captives. Thank you for getting us started with the calm before the storm will rage.

Historically, there was actually a lot of African slavery in the Middle East and especially in southern Iraq through most of the Islamic period. This was where the famous Zanj revolt took place (one of the largest and bloodiest slave revolts in world history). Zanj itself referring to the 'slave coasts' of east africa. The extent to which this was plantation agriculture could vary depending on the economic conditions of the time though.

Aboulgharib - an actual Renaissance man!

Interesting. Given how fractured Europe seems, it makes sense for it to come in Mesopotamia.
The Renaissance spawning in Nineveh! How interesting! Hopefully this will be a boon for the growing empire.
The European Renaissance in our time line was basically Europe catching up to the East. Nineveh/Baghdad seems proper.

Catching up and even surpassing! I can certainly see a story argument in favour of the Renaissance happening in ME. The region was historically the richest part of western Eurasia in the middle ages, and we did not face anything so terrible as the Mongol Invasion, so will likely have preserved a little more of those riches. On top of this, we are emerging out of a depressed period of wars, internal strife and bad climate under some stable leadership in the 15th century - that sense of greater intercultural interchange likely would have helped add on an extra dollop of knowledge exchange among the diverse communities of the region. The Europe in this storyline on the other hand, is still not quite at the same level of civilisation - even if it is catching up.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Things are in a dangerous place right now; and I have to say, I can't help but root for the Syrian candidate, who wouldn't subordinate Assyria to a foreign realm.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: