In the new DLC what will Aztecs be like?

[Hystarea]

This is just an idea thread as to what you guys think the Aztecs will be like. I hope they are just like Europeans or else they will be at a slight disadvantage because the Europeans used steel, and they didn't. I kinda hope they are like Europeans when they started really coming into contact with the Americas. I want the Aztecs to have some type of gunpowder and better ships. I really hope we can also use the character creator to make an Aztec leader BEFORE they arrive. Kinda like a scouting party

 

[Cuthuthulu]

From what information we have I think the Aztecs will mostly act like a cross between the Conquistadors and the Mongol Horde.

 

[donaldduck]

They are just like Mongols coming from west, with their 100k stack. I think there will be new DLCs that 100k stacks come from West Africa and Scandinavia, or Rome, until they fill everywhere. Players, kneel and cry:wub:

 

[noobermenschen]

They are just like Mongols coming from west, with their 100k stack. I think there will be new DLCs that 100k stacks come from West Africa and Scandinavia, or Rome, until they fill everywhere. Players, kneel and cry:wub:

Bring it.

 

[The_13th_Ronin]

slight disadvantage

If you call near-naked warriors fighting with stone and wooden clubs against knights on horses with full plate and long swords, warhammers and kite shields a slight disadvantage.

Technology wise a modern equivalent would be if a small African nation like Zambia delcared war on the United States.

It's probable that an Aztec warrior with a stone club attacking a knight in full plate would be as futile as throwing rocks at a tank. The knight would have a better chance of laughing himself to death than actually being killed by the Aztec.

And how exactly are the Aztecs meant to siege a castle? Aztecs had no concept of sieging walls.

 

[Me_]

If you call near-naked warriors fighting with stone and wooden clubs against knights on horses with full plate and long swords, warhammers and kite shields a slight disadvantage.

Technology wise a modern equivalent would be if a small African nation like Zambia delcared war on the United States.

It's probable that an Aztec warrior with a stone club attacking a knight in full plate would be as futile as throwing rocks at a tank. The knight would have a better chance of laughing himself to death than actually being killed by the Aztec.

And how exactly are the Aztecs meant to siege a castle? Aztecs had no concept of sieging walls.

You really know nothing about medieval history, don't you. Full plate armour didn't even exist before late 14th century (aztec appear in 13th) and wasn't common until even later. The idea of massive numbers of knights is also taken straight out of Hollywood, not history books.

This would be more like a WWI era nation attacking a WWII era one. A major difference, but one that can be negated with sheer numbers.

 

[vincentc]

They are just like Mongols coming from west, with their 100k stack. I think there will be new DLCs that 100k stacks come from West Africa and Scandinavia, or Rome, until they fill everywhere. Players, kneel and cry:wub:

Oh, I see. So this DLC adds a new decision for the player to "kneel and cry" which will disband 100k stack at the cost of 500 prestige or something...:laugh:

**Emperor of Hispania Empire kneel and cries**
**Aztec invasion on Hispania Empire end inconclusively**

 

[bullyasagi]

Oh, I see. So this DLC adds a new decision for the player to "kneel and cry" which will disband 100k stack at the cost of 500 prestige or something...:laugh:

**Emperor of Hispania Empire kneel and cries**
**Aztec invasion on Hispania Empire end inconclusively**

but please with a 40% chance,to be sacrificed on a sun altar :happy:

 

[FieserMoep]

Well, still those Aztecs have nothing to stop heavy cavalry and are helpless against the longbows. Even light cavalry and heavy infantry would be hard to counter for them. Chainmail against rocks is at least a good protection though if they grappel you from your horse you have a problem with 10 angry guys smashing your head into a mess. But a fortified castle, prepared for a siege, would be something they cant overcome if everything else fails.

But I would like some diplomatic options to lead a aztec 100k army against a golden horde army. Maybe this will kill around 20k of the horde army and I can attack him with my own troops from the provinces around. xD

 

[Gqarz]

Um, The main problem for the Aztecs was lack of metals, (except gold and silver) especially iron. Being that they lacked any significant iron, they did not develop the skills to work metals with high melting points. They made weapons from wood and obsidian. Now obsidian is really effective against naked skin as it is extremely sharp. The problem with obsidian is that once it meets any significant resistance it shatters and becomes useless. The Aztecs also lacked cavalry. Now clubs can be effective weapons against steel armors, but given that the Aztecs generally went virtually naked into battle... Aztec ranged weapons are also somewhat lacking. Their primary ranged weapon was the Atlatl which is sort of a spear thrower. This allows the wielder to propel small spears with decent range, power and accuracy up to about 20-25m. Given that the effective range of European missile weapons is anywhere from 100 to 400m...I would expect another huge advantage for European armies. To sum up, given the advantages of steel armor and weapons, superior ranged weapons, and most importantly cavalry, I would expect a competent European lord with 20k men, including 3k cavalry to be able to decimate an Aztec army several times more numerous.

The Aztecs would also have a great deal of trouble with cold weather. I would expect massive attrition for Aztec stacks in northern climes.

 

[The_13th_Ronin]

Full plate armour didn't even exist before late 14th century.

They might not have had one continous piece of metal like later but they had coats of plate covering their entire bodies... For the purposes of the discussion same thing... Several plates would still be more than enough to stop a stone club. Espicially with arming coats, etc.

 

[nijis]

The gimmick to making an Aztec "threat" credible will be the alternate history by which the Aztecs become a seafaring civilization.

The ships look Norse -- maybe Vinland survived long enough to pass on a bit of technology to the Americas, and perhaps a bit of acquired disease immunity as well? An army equipped with steel-bladed macuahuitls or mail beneath their feathers and skins would still be recognizably Aztec, I'd think.

Any alternate history will be a stretch -- no pre-industrial civilization was capable of sealifting the kinds of numbers Paradox is talking about across the Atlantic, and the attrition from months in open longships would be immense -- but with enough thought experimentation maybe something pseudo-credible would be possible.

Maybe we start with Aztec colonies along the eastern coast of the Americas? A colony in Brazil, then Senegal, and then they burst upon Europe?

 

[Fawr]

It will be like an April fools joke told on April 2nd. That is mistimed and frankly just wrong.

Um, The main problem for the Aztecs was lack of metals, (except gold and silver) especially iron. Being that they lacked any significant iron, they did not develop the skills to work metals with high melting points. They made weapons from wood and obsidian. Now obsidian is really effective against naked skin as it is extremely sharp. The problem with obsidian is that once it meets any significant resistance it shatters and becomes useless. The Aztecs also lacked cavalry. Now clubs can be effective weapons against steel armors, but given that the Aztecs generally went virtually naked into battle... Aztec ranged weapons are also somewhat lacking. Their primary ranged weapon was the Atlatl which is sort of a spear thrower. This allows the wielder to propel small spears with decent range, power and accuracy up to about 20-25m. Given that the effective range of European missile weapons is anywhere from 100 to 400m...I would expect another huge advantage for European armies. To sum up, given the advantages of steel armor and weapons, superior ranged weapons, and most importantly cavalry, I would expect a competent European lord with 20k men, including 3k cavalry to be able to decimate an Aztec army several times more numerous.

The Aztecs would also have a great deal of trouble with cold weather. I would expect massive attrition for Aztec stacks in northern climes.

This is a pure fantasy mod, with no resemblence to real Aztec resources. So I'd assume they had much better than European tech, troops and resources.

If you call near-naked warriors fighting with stone and wooden clubs against knights on horses with full plate and long swords, warhammers and kite shields a slight disadvantage.

Technology wise a modern equivalent would be if a small African nation like Zambia delcared war on the United States.

It's probable that an Aztec warrior with a stone club attacking a knight in full plate would be as futile as throwing rocks at a tank. The knight would have a better chance of laughing himself to death than actually being killed by the Aztec.

And how exactly are the Aztecs meant to siege a castle? Aztecs had no concept of sieging walls.

This is a pure fantasy mod, with no resemblence to real Aztec technology. So I'd assume they have muskets, gunpowder and very angry llamas (no wait, thats the Inca).

Well, still those Aztecs have nothing to stop heavy cavalry and are helpless against the longbows. Even light cavalry and heavy infantry would be hard to counter for them. Chainmail against rocks is at least a good protection though if they grappel you from your horse you have a problem with 10 angry guys smashing your head into a mess. But a fortified castle, prepared for a siege, would be something they cant overcome if everything else fails.

But I would like some diplomatic options to lead a aztec 100k army against a golden horde army. Maybe this will kill around 20k of the horde army and I can attack him with my own troops from the provinces around. xD

This is a pure fantasy mod. So the developers will give the aztecs magic powers to tech up and get super heavy cavalry troops.

I really hope we can also use the character creator to make an Aztec leader BEFORE they arrive. Kinda like a scouting party

I think I've read confirmation somewhere here that the aztecs will not be available at the start of the game (no matter what time period you choose). Unfortunatly the forum has been busy so I can't find it right now. But that means this isn't happening.

 

[Ruskhan]

"Once they settle their new, oppressed provinces, the Aztecs can start to create cavalry and make other advances, increasing their power and the risk of other nations being attacked the longer they linger."

 

[Spartanlemur]

Gunpowder moved west from Mongolia, not East across the enormous Pacific ocean. If they have guns it will just be ridiculous. That said, Aztec adoption of European technology is a must.

 

[Hystarea]

Saw I couldn't play as the Aztecs and I now know this is the one DLC I will skip out on. I already have the Mongols to deal with I don't need another mongol invasion.

 

[NezzeOne]

I


I think I've read confirmation somewhere here that the aztecs will not be available at the start of the game (no matter what time period you choose). Unfortunatly the forum has been busy so I can't find it right now. But that means this isn't happening.

While this is true, that doesn't mean you can't Ruler-Design an Aztec ruler in.

 

[grisamentum]

While the Aztec DLC is stupid, so are some of the responses in this thread.

"Aztecs couldn't siege a castle or city curtain wall"

Yes, and neither could the Mongols, until they figured it out.

"Aztecs couldn't deal with northern climates"

What, they wouldn't figure out to put on more clothes?

"Aztecs had stone weapons"

Yes, until the capture the first village blacksmith; alternatively, we're talking about an alternate universe where Aztecs can cross the Atlantic, so why not give them iron or steel weapons?

Seriously, you can't argue with a silly fantasy scenario. The point of the DLC is to create invasions on the West side of the map so that Ireland, France, and Mauritania aren't complete freebies with no threats.

 

[unmerged(26044)]

I like this idea of technologically advanced Aztecs invading Western Europe. It could conceivably happen in an alternate history where, for example, the horse didn't go extinct in America after the Ice Age, and there are just a few more domesticable plants and animals that can be bred to be as useful as those in the "Old World."

With those conditions, Native Americans can emerge from the Ice Age with a much better chance to advance their civilization and tech than they had historically, and maybe discover steel, gunpowder and ocean-crossing before Europe does.

And, perhaps the funnest part, it can give an imaginative game developer "carte blanche" to imagine what the clothes and culture of a turbo-charged Native American culture advancing in thousands of years of isolation would look like by the time it reaches its Gunpowder Age.

 

[DominusNovus]

In a word: Anachronistic.