In the interest of keeping single player somewhat interesting if the Ottos get nerfed...

[Hessian Mercenary]

sure lets call the second largest european country (3rd largest by population) in the beginning of the 19th century a failure and that it was dumpstered Yes Francis dissolved the HRE so it would not come under french influence, but he also created the hereditary title of Emperor of Austria, which was acknowledged by all other nations. Austria bore the brunt of the coalition wars while Great Britain sat on their islands throwing money around and the awesome prussian space marines everyone here seems to love had chickened out already in 1795 (and got completely obliterated in less than a year when they joined again in 1806)

If anything Austria is the european great power that conistently underperforms in EU4 compared to its historical achievements (at least in my games). While Austria has a chance to get Hungary as PU subject via events it does not get an integrate for free decision like Spain and Commonwealth. Without lucky nation status Austria might as well just roll over and die

I agree that nations like Aq Qoyunlu or Jianzhou could get lucky status at the beginning of the game and removed at second age, not much work involved here. Overall giving lucky nation status based on ages is not good though. Imagine Denmark doing well, conquering some turf, integrating Norway and keeping Sweden loyal, suddenly game decides 'oh boy it's time for a Swedish Empire'. So clearly for lucky status in later ages there would have to be some reasonable checks to see if lucky status is actually warranted in that particular playthrough, and the working hours needed for that can probably be better spend on something else

 

[Snake_Squeezins]

Having the "Lucky" modifier be a little more dynamic and age-dependent could be interesting. Starting and finishing Lucky should be limited to the powerhouses like France, Spain, Otto, etc. Reaching a golden age should lock Lucky in for a while. Nations that are beaten down to shells of themselves should probably lose their Lucky modifier for a while. I seems like there should be ways that allow Lucky to evolve as the game world changes.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Don't get me wrong I think the removal of cores will make the ottomans more beatable by the player because you know what they will do 99% of the time.


But with out the player this just seems to do nothing but make Ottoman expansion slightly slower.

I must be missing something about how this a significant.

I wish there was a "historical" setting that removed the ai from being able to make non-historical choices and makes events always fire at their historical time as long as prereqs exsist

 

[Vulkandrache]

The removal ofthe cores means that

1. They need to fabricate claims to declare the war.
2. They pay Dip for the others.
3. They get non-Zero AE for their early expansion.
4. They need to core the land.
5. It starts with non-Zero LA.

This "slightly slower" will affect alot of things down the line, making their whole expansion start up much slower.
I might even go so far as to say we will see the Ottomans fail so many times that part of these changes will be reverted.

 

[pikaemperor]

The removal ofthe cores means that

1. They need to fabricate claims to declare the war.
2. They pay Dip for the others.
3. They get non-Zero AE for their early expansion.
4. They need to core the land.
5. It starts with non-Zero LA.

This "slightly slower" will affect alot of things down the line, making their whole expansion start up much slower.
I might even go so far as to say we will see the Ottomans fail so many times that part of these changes will be reverted.

The ottomans failing has more to do with AI screwup with where to park their armies and who to attack than a weak starting position.

 

[Jaapje]

The removal ofthe cores means that

1. They need to fabricate claims to declare the war.
2. They pay Dip for the others.
3. They get non-Zero AE for their early expansion.
4. They need to core the land.
5. It starts with non-Zero LA.

This "slightly slower" will affect alot of things down the line, making their whole expansion start up much slower.
I might even go so far as to say we will see the Ottomans fail so many times that part of these changes will be reverted.

I doubt they will fail. Their start position is just too advantageous. But my guess is they will be blocked out of SE europe 9/10 times. As both Austria and Poland get time to consolidate.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Why would they be blocked out SE Europe?

They aren't losing their core on Albania, and Austria gets stomped by France and Poland by Hungary/Denmark/TO early.

 

[Gratak]

Why would they be blocked out SE Europe?

They aren't losing their core on Albania, and Austria gets stomped by France and Poland by Hungary/Denmark/TO early.

Indeed. They might even be more aggressive in Europe now.

 

[Dominion]

Can they really be more aggressive in Europe though?

I recently had an argument how Catholic Ottomans would have behavior x and they showed y. Granted it was still bad, but pretty much the opposite of what I expected.

Together with POI changes Gnivom said he wanted to bring (if he really manages to push it into the upcoming patch) and the overseas bug he wanted to fix (dito) we are going to see major behavioral changes throughout the whole world.

If he really pushes both these changes in the upcoming patch a slightly different Ottoman Empire will be the least of our problems. I'm more worried about Ming eating all of SEA+Japan.

 

[Steel_atlas]

Can they really be more aggressive in Europe though?

I recently had an argument how Catholic Ottomans would have behavior x and they showed y. Granted it was still bad, but pretty much the opposite of what I expected.

Together with POI changes Gnivom said he wanted to bring (if he really manages to push it into the upcoming patch) and the overseas bug he wanted to fix (dito) we are going to see major behavioral changes throughout the whole world.

If he really pushes both these changes in the upcoming patch a slightly different Ottoman Empire will be the least of our problems. I'm more worried about Ming eating all of SEA+Japan.

I dont know what your refrencing.

My thoughts are, its not like the Ottomans will not have anywhere to expand in the start it and the small nations to their east are becoming richer and Islam is receiving a buff.

So Im guessing the Ottomans will just expand into the Balkans earlier and will end up being even stronger in the long run due to higher dev/more provinces in anatolia.

I mean 3rd Rome was supposed to contain the Ottomans but hasnt, so I dont see why we should believe that this expansion would.

 

[Dominion]

What I'm saying is that a DoW is based on standing forces and POI more than anything so unless these split up smaller nations pack some heat by allying each other the Ottoman Empire will continue eating them instead of the Balkans.

And assuming their POI stay the same they will only attack Serbia, but not fully annex them in their first war. Which means they're easy pickings for Ragusa, Venice and Hungary.

I don't see any actual changes in focus based on the current patch and even if it comes it will not change much unless it's accompanied by POI changes.

It's not like Serbia/Bosnia is an Ai powerhouse in your average playthrough.